How Old Is The Earth

[AVBibleBeliever]

I didn't ignore the six day work of God. 

 

Made and Create are two different meanings.  Bring forth is also another term that you need to understand.

 

I made no attempt to equal what I see to being the word of God because the things I discuss are outside the 24/7 time quantum (measurement)  that did not start until after the earth was created, the fall of Lucifer and the testing of the Angels, and after verse two the first flooding of the earth and parts of the heaven.

 

Just because you don't believe is no reason to banter, attack or argue.  I am simply trying to explain what I see in the scriptures..

 

Proverbs 8:22-24 is very important especially if it is preserved Chronologically.  The Bible and the six day work of God was in preparing the earth for man.  This does not mean there was nothing on the earth prior to verse two of Genesis.  The Bible contains information, instruction and doctrine that affects man on and in this earth.  that is why there is very little about eternity past, and it's future.

 

I would encourage you to go back and re-read the OP once again and try and understand my view.  But don't attack me.  I have made nothing out to be equal to the word of God or emphatically that it is the absolute truth according to the Bible.  I have only looked at the word and drawn conclusions that may or may not be correct.

 

Remember my understanding does not hurt one major fundamental that is import to the salvation, deity Jesus, the Godhead, and right practice of the church in this age as Calvinism does.

Edited August 10, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[AVBibleBeliever]

Dave do you not see you're changing of the word of God by substituting the word created for made as it is found in Exodus?  and you are attacking me over my view while changing the word of God to fit your view.

Edited August 10, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[DaveW]

And saying something is spiritual is not the same as "outside time" - Now who 8 changing God's Word - my usage is consistent with the meaning.
Yours is fantasy......

[AVBibleBeliever]

David, you are doing nothing more than just arguing.  You are not adding any light to the subject in bantering.

 

Even after I showed you scripture that you were wrong when you said,  "Angles are not mentioned specifically, but then again neither are ants, or sparrows, or chimpanzees - " you didn't or couldn't even humble your self to admit that you were wrong.  This pride of yours will keep you arguing rather than meditaiting and or contemplating on the subject matter that I presented in the OP.

 

Everything for man on this earth was brought forth, made or created from Genesis 1:3-31.  Angels are not of this earth.  They are ministering spirits.  Their creation is clearly not connected to the 6 day work of God found outlined from Gen 1:3-2:25.

 

You keep bantering me about giving you a clear verse that shows when the Angles were created but then you cannot come up with one either except one term "everything thing" that generalizes the things brought forth, created, or made in the 6 day work of God on the earth, not what is in the Abode of God or the Third heaven.

 

The third heaven is where the OP starts us before there was ever an earth, a depth, and fountains abounding with water Proverbs 8:22 that is clearly a beginning that was before Genesis 1:1.  And there is no way you can connect those two beginnings together and say they are the same beginning.

Edited August 10, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[AVBibleBeliever]

I believe that God put things in the Bible for those of us who are a bit more curious to search out.

 

One thing that got me was "when did God create his Chariot Throne"? as first seen in Ezekiel 1.

 

Eze 1:4 ¶ And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
 5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.
 6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.
 7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.
 8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.
 9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.
 10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
 11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
 12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.
 13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.
 14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
 15 ¶ Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.
 16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
 17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.
 18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.
 19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
 20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
 21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
 22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
 23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.
 24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.
 25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.
 26 ¶ And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

 

Nothing like this is described in the six day work of God.  The creatures are not described in the Six day work of God.

 

It does say something in the likeness of the firmament but it is only in likeness not that it is the same firmament made in Gen 1:6-8, the one day, God does not say specifically that he saw it was good.  But later in Verse 31 he does say, generally, it is good.  This is not a contradiction it is an important truth about God's desire to protect his newly formed creations from His Presence.  The fact is that anything that separates God from his creation is not a good thing.  It was done because sin had entered this part of the depth of the abode of God and he had to contain it and separate it.  He did so by creating an firmament.

 

When was this throne that God sits upon Created?

 

When were these four living creatures Created?

 

When was fire made?  This question is important because just after the fall God puts a flaming sword to keep the way of the Garden lest man reach out and take hold of eternal life as they were led to take hold of Knowledge.

 

When were these Lamps made?

 

And why is this rainbow like what we see in the sky, what is it doing here around this throne.

 

These are just a few questions that the word of God generates and there is nothing wrong with seeking things out and asking questions.  In doing so I came across Proverbs 8:22-24 A beginning that was separate from the one in Genesis.  A set of scriptures many have over looked as insignificant when it comes to understanding if there was anything going on before Genesis 1:1.

Edited August 10, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[DaveW]

You
Have
Said
Several
Times
That
Angels
Are
Outside
Time.
Scripture please?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

He has to add to the Word of God to place the angels creation before the creation week.  A dangerous practice.

[AVBibleBeliever]

I have said I BELIEVE they were created "from everlasting" which I further believe is eternity past, which is clearly before the 24 hour day established in Gen.1:3-5

 

Kind of like  Ps 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God  I believe this expression is representative of eternity past and into eternity future and encompasses eternity at present.

 

Now you will ask for verses to show it.  ps 90 is one.

 

 Ps 93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.  I have shown that I believe the creation of the throne was some time after the he "possessed me" and  "or ever the earth was" of Proverbs 8:22

 

Instead of arguments try getting involved in what is presented in the OP.

[AVBibleBeliever]

I would further add

 

 Ps 93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

 

Can we call this Eternity past without asking for scriptures to support it?

 

Can anyone identify the time measurement of Everlasting or Eternity outside our current 24/7 time system?

 

 Ps 103:17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children; this would include angels as they are called the sons of God in JOB.

 

 Ps 106:48 Blessed [be] the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.

 Isa 63:16 Doubtless thou [art] our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, [art] our father, our redeemer; thy name [is] from everlasting.

 Hab 1:12 ¶ [Art] thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.

 

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
 

And when was the everlasting fire made? Surely it was not made during the six day work of God.  If so it would have been mentioned because it has to do with where men go if they don't truly follow the Messiah, the King who commands they go into everlasting fire. 

 

When was this everlasting fire made?  conclusion from everlasting, in eternity past.

Edited August 10, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Everlasting simply means "without end"
Of old does not necessitate befreo time either.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

And we are not arguing that God did not exist before the creation, so don't go there. 

He OBviously did exist before creation or there would be no creation.

But the fact is, ou have not produce any evidence whatsoever that supports your gap theory... only speculation. 
You have not produced any evidence that angels or thrones existed prior to the first day of creation... only speculation.

[prophet1]

And saying something is spiritual is not the same as "outside time" - Now who 8 changing God's Word - my usage is consistent with the meaning.
Yours is fantasy......

Learn English.

A spirit does not dwell in the physical earth.

God dwells in eternity.

Both God and angels can appear to us, the physical beings, but they are not limited to Time as we are.

Your hang up is with the definitions of "spirit", and 'physical' (in the body, flesh, carnal).

As Jesus said to Nic. "Art thou a master" in Aussie land, ....?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

God's Spirit dwells in the Earth. While I see the results of His moving, I have yet to catch a glimpse of Him.

Sure there are spirits in the Earth today.

[prophet1]

God's Spirit dwells in the Earth. While I see the results of His moving, I have yet to catch a glimpse of Him. Sure there are spirits in the Earth today.

He doesn't "dwell" here. He is everywhere, but His dwelling place is not the Earth. You can try to make a spirit do whatever you want it to, but you cant force it to be a physical being. Words have definitions. Spirits are not of our physical realm. Edited August 10, 2014 by prophet1

[AVBibleBeliever]

Prophet1 has touched the very essence of the separation of physical and spirit. 

 

Our souls and body can now be eternal and will go to one of two places, to everlasting with God and our Savour Jesus Christ or to everlasting fire with the devil and his angles.