What Is A True Christian

[swathdiver]

 

 

 

Forgiveness of what?

 

Belief is only half of it GraceSaved.  I know people who believe and live like the devil without remorse.  Are they going to heaven?

[Salyan]

Repentance unto salvation is a change of mind (that results in the action of placing one's trust in Christ for salvation). Period. You add anything else to it you're making a works salvation.
 

It's very tempting to use repentance (or a lack thereof) as a reason for why people 'believe and live like the devil'. But that isn't a correct use of repentance, and confuses salvation with sanctification. Sanctification isn't automatic. Yes, it's a work God does in us. However, if we do not cooperate with the work God is doing (obey), that stymies the sanctification process. 

 

 

"But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance." Acts 26:20

 

 

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29

 

[swathdiver]

Repentance unto salvation is a change of mind (that results in the action of placing one's trust in Christ for salvation). Period. You add anything else to it you're making a works salvation.
 

It's very tempting to use repentance (or a lack thereof) as a reason for why people 'believe and live like the devil'. But that isn't a correct use of repentance, and confuses salvation with sanctification. Sanctification isn't automatic. Yes, it's a work God does in us. However, if we do not cooperate with the work God is doing (obey), that stymies the sanctification process. 

 

I believe and like the explanation given in the Way of Life Encyclopedia:

 

“Repentance is a godly sorrow for sin. Repentance is a forsaking of sin. Real repentance is putting your trust in Jesus Christ so

you will not live like that anymore. Repentance is permanent. It is a lifelong and an eternity-long experience. You will never love

the devil again once you repent. You will never flirt with the devil as the habit of your life again once you get saved. You will

never be happy living in sin; it will never satisfy; and the husks of the world will never fill your longing and hungering in your soul.

Repentance is something a lot bigger than a lot of people think. It is absolutely essential if you go to heaven” (Lester Roloff,

Repent or Perish)

 

Remember Acts 20:21 and I'm paraphrasing, we are to repent to God for it is his laws we've broken and put our trust, our faith, to surrender our will to Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

[Salyan]

That is a very dangerous definition, as commonly understood. If repentance is being sorry for sin, how do you know when you're 'sorry enough'? I went through two years of doubting my salvation after reading that definition in one of Cloud's articles refuting lordship salvation. Repentance is not forsaking sin - except in the mind, which is that change of mind mentioned earlier. Are you suggesting that there is some action in forsaking sin required? It is impossible for a lost sinner to stop sinning. If he were to try to stop sinning as a part of a salvation process - well, you've just got a works salvation on your hands.

David cloud does not espouse lordship salvation, but his definition if repentance manages to incorporate that idea nonetheless. He tends to confuse salvation and sanctification.

That quote above seems to mix repentance unto salvation and repentance of a saved person toward later sin. I'm only speaking to the repentance required for salvation, as I haven't studied out the later yet. This definition is a hot topic in my church right now, so I stopped listening to men's definitions and studied the Scripture to see what God's definition was.

[AVBibleBeliever]

That is a very dangerous definition, as commonly understood. If repentance is being sorry for sin, how do you know when you're 'sorry enough'? I went through two years of doubting my salvation after reading that definition in one of Cloud's articles refuting lordship salvation. Repentance is not forsaking sin - except in the mind, which is that change of mind mentioned earlier. Are you suggesting that there is some action in forsaking sin required? It is impossible for a lost sinner to stop sinning. If he were to try to stop sinning as a part of a salvation process - well, you've just got a works salvation on your hands.

David cloud does not espouse lordship salvation, but his definition if repentance manages to incorporate that idea nonetheless. He tends to confuse salvation and sanctification.

That quote above seems to mix repentance unto salvation and repentance of a saved person toward later sin. I'm only speaking to the repentance required for salvation, as I haven't studied out the later yet. This definition is a hot topic in my church right now, so I stopped listening to men's definitions and studied the Scripture to see what God's definition was.

I turned from the world and myself (repented) to God when I heard the gospel and by faith I believed on Christ finished work of the cross for my salvation.

 

I never repented of all my sins and I doubt anyone can.

 

Repentance can mean to turn from a life of full out sin to God.

 

But under the Kingdom Gospel to Israel they are commanded to believe, repent and to be baptized for the remission of sin.

 

You will notice that John and Jesus are not preaching a gospel of the the finished work of the cross nor are they pointing to it.  this is all part of the Kingdom Gospel to prepare Israel for the Kingdom had the whole nation accepted Christ as their Messiah.

 

Mt 3:1 ¶  In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mr 1:14 ¶ Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

the gospel or good news here is that the kingdom is at hand  Belief and repentance (faith + works=salvation)

 

Below you see John is preaching the good news that the kingdom is at hand and he calls Israel to Repent and we see baptism as part of their repentance

 

Mt 3:1 ¶  In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
 4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
 5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

 

Mr 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.  Notice here that they had to get baptized to have the remission of sins.  Today we have remission through faith alone on Christ finished work of the cross.

 

The Gospel here is the Kingdom is at hand and it was required that he who believes the gospel of the kingdom was to be baptized shall be saved.  Belief and baptism for salvation this is not the gospel of Faith alone in the finished work of Christ's cross for salvation.

Mr 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

 

So does a true Christian repent?  Yes they have turned form the world, its ways and their ways of sin and turn to God.  But this repentance happens the moment one believes and will continue to take place through the Christians growth as a Christian.

 

Repentance is not a requirement to get saved in this age but it will be a work in the believers life.

 

A true Christian is not identified by repentance, baptism or any other work (for only God knows for sure who the true Christians are.

 

If you want to know who they are look to their Changed lives and good works they will do because they are saved.

[Jeffrey]

Repentance unto salvation is a change of mind (that results in the action of placing one's trust in Christ for salvation). Period. You add anything else to it you're making a works salvation.
 

It's very tempting to use repentance (or a lack thereof) as a reason for why people 'believe and live like the devil'. But that isn't a correct use of repentance, and confuses salvation with sanctification. Sanctification isn't automatic. Yes, it's a work God does in us. However, if we do not cooperate with the work God is doing (obey), that stymies the sanctification process. 

This^^, I think all to often this is what confuses people. Repentance begins with a changing of ones mind, then the action of sanctification follows.

[Daniel Rush]

Brothers and Sisters,

 

     The word of the LORD; Mark 4:26-29…” And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how. For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.”

 

     A young man earning his degree in farming at Clemson University did a study with tomato plants. He planted three seeds in three separate pots.

 

    In the first pot he placed common dirt, the kind you’d find out in a baseball diamond. Dirt that was baked day after day by the sun. He took common tap water, ran it over and over through filtrations and degaussed it so as to reduce both its acid and ion content.

 

   In the second pot he put the soil you’d find at Walmart or Home Depot, soil specifically made for gardens with all the nutrients the makers promised. To this he added grocery store sold spring water.

 

   In the last pot he put soil he dug from a nearby forest park and to that he added water flowing from a nearby stream. Months went by before he gauged the results…

 

   The first pot produced a weak tomato plant with no tomatoes. It had obviously germinated but had starved due to the sterile environment it grew in.

 

   The second pot produced a plant with tomatoes but on examination the tomatoes were not very big. They were dull in their color and their taste was very acidic..more than the sweetness promised on the seed packing.

 

     The last one however, produced a robust plant. The tomatoes were large, full of vibrant color and tasted sweet.

 

    Why did the last pot grow better than the second? The result of the first was predictable but why did the third grow so much better than the first? The secret was found in the packaging of the second pots soil. In all the work to promise that the soil would produce a tomato of fine quality, there was just no replacing what nature and God could provide.

 

    Take this to the word of GOD and how so many confuse the word “Christian” to mean that any doctrine infused with the selfish thoughts of man will do.

 

   Take the first plant. Some churches have so made the word of GOD a sterile abomination of sinless salvation that people may think they will grow as Christians but in reality they will never come to full bloom. When you teach an empty sinless caring Christ who will not judge sins and does not call the lost to repentance? You stoke people’s feelings and stroke their feet but let them walk on right to hell.

 

  Then we have the second plant. These are the false churches, the churches of apostasy, the churches of blasphemy, the Catholics, the Mormons, The Witnesses, many Methodists, scores of Baptists and the New Age occult deceivers who add to GOD’s word and change it just enough that a person may appear to be growing and may look to be on their way but there’s just enough lie and error to discolor the work and produce a false Christian full of the acid of satan’s 1 percent lie. This is the homosexual who thinks they are saved, the pot smoker who thinks they can keep on smoking and the person falling for the prosperity gospel of wicked lies.

 

   Then there’s the third pot. This is the true Christian. The one who follows the only true word given once to all men, the 1611 King James Bible. This is the person who not only knows they are wicked vile sinner; they profess it. They rebuke the world, they preach the gospel, they don’t care what people think and they stand for GOD’s word and GOD’s gospel and they refuse to bend to the whims of men. They are Christians who love with authority, who care with authority and who speak with authority as Christ loved, cared and spoke. They speak the truth of GOD’s word and they speak it as it is written not as man adds or takes from it.

 

    What pot do you grow in? What spirit do you serve? Do you test the soil and the water to make sure your growth is not stunted nor weak? You do know that Christians are commanded to test the spirits and the soils and the waters if they be from GOD or from satan. We must always keep in mind that satan is always at war with the believers, just by blurting out the salvation message doesn’t make you saved...it makes you a bigger target.

 

   Salvation comes from knowing you’re a filthy sinner deserving of hell and damnation. Salvation comes from you realizing your lost condition, accepting Christ and doing what the LORD commands you to do. Remember that Christ said “You call me LORD...yet...why do you not do that which I told you to do? Why do you rebel?”

 

   You can not live in rebellion and be saved. You can’t be a member of a lying church drowning in apostasy and blasphemy and call yourself saved. Churches are taking their whole congregations right to hell on that 1 percent error that satan craves. Ask yourself again…”What spirit do you serve?”

 

   Christian...you are a seed among the seeds set in soil and watered; why would you not be concerned with what nourishes your growth? Test those spirits, test always what your church teaches, what your pastor preaches and test them to the word of GOD both for you and for those around you.

   Blessed be the word of GOD...Amen.

[AVBibleBeliever]

I sow the seed of God's word and the gospel of the grace of God some of the soil is hard, some rocky, some weedy and some good soil.  Others plant, others water and others harvest but the Lord gives the increase.

[swathdiver]

Salyan, we're talking about repentance for salvation and not repentance for the remission of sins.  Sorrow is to feel sorry for breaking God's laws; the ten commandments.  These changes all occur in the heart and mind in less than a second, no works, all grace.  Two sides of the same coin, one cannot have saving faith without repentance.   

[prophet1]

???? You mean a phone app?

No, mine is a 400th anniversary reproduction - photo reprint of an actual first edition (I believe).

Cool it is too.
It sits on my shelf and I try to read the old writing (successfully I might add) but it is a bit hard to follow at first.

Yes, a phone app.

Anishinaabe

[candlelight]

This^^, I think all to often this is what confuses people. Repentance begins with a changing of ones mind, then the action of sanctification follows.

 Amen, Jeffrey!  I have posted this before, but I think it explains very well, what true repentance is.  I was struggling with this, on how to lead people to Christ.  I had studied the false doctrine of "Lordship Salvation" and entered upon this.  This is backed up by the KJV.

______________________________

Forms of the word "repent" or "repentance" are used in the New Testament 66 times in 60 verses. The majority of the time it is translated from the Greek words metanoia; noun, and metanoeo, verb. It simply means "to change one's mind." The object of the change of mind has to be determined by the context. A person can repent or change his mind about anything. Sorrow or a changed life after repentance may or may not occur but it is not in the meaning of the word itself. As opposed to the OT, the words used in the Greek NT for repent/repentance are consistently translated as such. Six of the occurrences in the New Testament "repent" are translated from a form of the Greek word "metamelomai" and it can have a meaning of "caring afterwards, or "regret."Many times the unsaved person is exhorted by well-meaning pastors and Bible teachers to "repent of their sins and believe in Jesus in order to receive eternal life. This message is so widespread that we tend to assume that it is in the Bible. The terms "repent of sin" or "repentance of sin" are not even to be found in God's word!

Though the terms "repent of sin" and "repentance of sin" are not to be found in the Bible, the concept of repentance of sin is found. Usually, this is a message for those who have already believed in Jesus and have eternal life. Some examples of this are: 1. Simon the sorcerer in Acts, Chapter 8. In verse 12 and 13, we read that Simon believed in Jesus along with others. In verses 18 and 19, Simon then sees the phenomenon of the Holy Spirit being given and offers the Apostles money so that he could have the same power. Peter admonishes his and tells him to "repent of this thy wickedness," and pray that he might be forgiven. Please note that this is speaking of a believer’s forgiveness, not an unsaved persons’ justification. Forgiveness is a fellowship issue, not a forensic issue. 2. In 2 Corinthians 7:8-10, Paul rejoices that the believers "sorrowed to repentance" concerning the carnal lifestyle that they were embracing. Verse 10 states in part, "For godly sorrow worketh repentance (metanoia) to salvation not to be repented (metamellomai) of...." Note that the text does not say that godly sorrow is repentance. 3. In 2 Corinthians 12:21, we find the Apostle Paul lamenting that he might find the Corinthian believers still in a deplorable state of disobedient Christian living. He mourns that some "have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." 4. In Revelation, Chapters 2 and 3, we find admonitions to believers in five of the seven churches to repent of specifically mentioned patterns of sin in which they were engaged. None of the above instances did the repentance have anything to do with them being eternally saved. 5. Even in Luke 15, there is good reason to believe that the two references to the “joy in heaven over one sinner who repents,” (verses 7, 10) are frequently misused; as both of them are referring to straying believers and have nothing to do with an unsaved person becoming justified in God’s sight (just as the “prodigal” son later in the same chapter who remained a son, though a disobedient and straying one, until he repented and judged his sin). 6. Repentance is also commanded to a crowd of unknown spiritual status in order to avoid God’s temporal judgment. For example, a pair of often misused verses is Luke 13:3, 5; “I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” The word “likewise” should tell us something about the meaning of the exhortation. Both verses refer in the context to those who experienced sudden and calamitous deaths. Verse four implies that this exhortation is addressed to them because of their ungodly attitude about their own sin. This prophecy was most likely fulfilled during the siege of Jerusalem by Titus in 70 AD (verses 34, 35). According to Josephus, around 1,100,000 Jews died during this Roman siege. Please note also, that the one requirement for eternal justification given over 150 times in the NT; belief, is not mentioned once in this passage. It is not a passage telling us how to be eternally saved. 6. In Revelation 9; 20, 21 and 16:9, 11, we find examples of God's temporal judgment upon the unbeliever for not forsaking mentioned patterns of sin. This again is not in the context of believing in Jesus and receiving eternal life. This also is referring to what will occur during the Great Tribulation period. Some who proclaim the message of "repent of sin and believe in Jesus" legitimately lament the sad state of the average believer and even the general condition of the body of Christ today. With some, the rationale seems to be that since believers are living such a carnal lifestyle, that we need to make it "hard" to get saved; that they need to have some level of obedience to Jesus before they even receive that gift of eternal life. If we have to earn it, it no longer is a gift.

[Salyan]

Candle! I like that! What's the source?

[candlelight]

His name is Bill Fallon, Salyan.  Below is his source.  If I remember correctly, I paraphrased what he wrote.  There is one on the Old Testament, as well.

http://www.freegraceresources.org/repentwordstudy.pdf 

[candlelight]

Hmmm.  That link didn't post.  Let me see if this works.  If not, you can find Bill Fallon (on repentance) on the Internet.

http://www.freegraceresources.org/repentwordstudy.pdf