Any Guesses As To What...

[Standing Firm In Christ]

For "this thing", the interlinear shows the definition to be, "of this one."

"Thing" is not even in the definition of the Greek word "tutu".

[Salyan]

Candlelight , my dad has had epilepsy for most of his life. He's also endured brain surgery, a broken neck, and now problems caused by blood clots in his legs. He tells me the story of how a number of years ago, when he was feeling down because he was not being healed (And he certainly sought it! Including being prayed over and anointed with oil.), a pastor friend came to him and asked him, "If God wants you to be sick , are you willing to be sick?" Oh, how that struck him ! He agonized over that for sometime before finally coming to the point where he could say to God, "Okay, if you want me to be sick , I'll be content to be sick ." The epilepsy has never gone. It is more contained now than in time past, and he can drive now, but it's still there. Since that time though, he has had much more peace and been able to be content with how God has him.

I don't know whether God intends to heal you or leave you with this problem. He never promises to always heal or remove our problems from us. We do know that if He chooses to leave it, then He has a purpose in it. Right? I guess the question is, can you be willing to be sick if that's where God wants you to be. Tough question, that.

Hugs from one who knows what it is to live with epilepsy in the family! :)

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Micah 7 compares evil men to thorns and briers. 

I believe Paul was doing the same in 2 Corinthians 12

[DaveW]

We can not know exactly what the thorn in the flesh was, because the bible does not designate it precisely.

The problem I have with the eyesight thing is that when God heals someone they are healed. I have a hard time believing that if it was blindness it was related to his road to Damascus blindness - however there is probably no reason why it couldn't be a natural blindness of later life.

The problem I have with it being an individual, is that the reason for the thorn is to keep him from being exalted - a single person constantly attacking him would lead others to exalt him more (that's the way people are -"look at the way he endures that mean person!"), although other enemies would likely be spurred on by it.

More likely that it would be the general attacks of many different enemies rather than a single one - but that doesn't seem to fit the context very well.

Since Paul often uses "flesh" when he talks of the battle between spirit and flesh, I have often wondered if it might be a battle of guilt for his past deeds. That would keep him humble, as he remembered what he had been saved from - and that is the reason the Lord would not remove it.

But the Bible doesn't say, so it is at best speculation.
The discussion has been interesting so far.

[candlelight]

Candlelight , my dad has had epilepsy for most of his life. He's also endured brain surgery, a broken neck, and now problems caused by blood clots in his legs. He tells me the story of how a number of years ago, when he was feeling down because he was not being healed (And he certainly sought it! Including being prayed over and anointed with oil.), a pastor friend came to him and asked him, "If God wants you to be sick , are you willing to be sick?" Oh, how that struck him ! He agonized over that for sometime before finally coming to the point where he could say to God, "Okay, if you want me to be sick , I'll be content to be sick ." The epilepsy has never gone. It is more contained now than in time past, and he can drive now, but it's still there. Since that time though, he has had much more peace and been able to be content with how God has him.

I don't know whether God intends to heal you or leave you with this problem. He never promises to always heal or remove our problems from us. We do know that if He chooses to leave it, then He has a purpose in it. Right? I guess the question is, can you be willing to be sick if that's where God wants you to be. Tough question, that.

Hugs from one who knows what it is to live with epilepsy in the family!

Oh, Saylan, I am so sorry to hear about your dad.  I know so many people that are Epileptic like myself and your father.  Thank you for that story.  It is very comforting to me.  Since I have had this since childhood, in the form of febrile seizures (high temperature seizures) and it came back in my adult years... I am thinking it might not every go away.  They have done scans on my brain and the seizure activity is there.  I am very thankful that I only have to take a very low dose of anti convuslant medication.  I was in the neurologist's office, last time, and I heard the secretary say that this one person was on 8,000 milligrams of something.  I am only on 400 mg. so that isn't so bad. 

Obviously, God hasn't removed it, as of yet, and maybe He won't ever heal it.  I will just have to be content having this illness.  It could be a lot worse.  I can do all normal activity as the meds I am on help me.  Thank you for the hugs.  I appreciate them.  Hugs back to you.  Please give your dad a hug from another Epilepsy patient.    

[candlelight]

We can not know exactly what the thorn in the flesh was, because the bible does not designate it precisely.

The problem I have with the eyesight thing is that when God heals someone they are healed. I have a hard time believing that if it was blindness it was related to his road to Damascus blindness - however there is probably no reason why it couldn't be a natural blindness of later life.

The problem I have with it being an individual, is that the reason for the thorn is to keep him from being exalted - a single person constantly attacking him would lead others to exalt him more (that's the way people are -"look at the way he endures that mean person!"), although other enemies would likely be spurred on by it.

More likely that it would be the general attacks of many different enemies rather than a single one - but that doesn't seem to fit the context very well.

Since Paul often uses "flesh" when he talks of the battle between spirit and flesh, I have often wondered if it might be a battle of guilt for his past deeds. That would keep him humble, as he remembered what he had been saved from - and that is the reason the Lord would not remove it.

But the Bible doesn't say, so it is at best speculation.
The discussion has been interesting so far.

 
Good points, DaveW.  I like what you wrote above.  I highlighted it.  I have heard that Paul was getting general attacks from many different enemies.  However, your take on guilt is a good analogy.  Remember, it was the Apostle Paul who was willing to go to Hell, so that others could go to Heaven.  He felt that bad about his past deeds.

Everything is speculation.  It is fun to speculate. 

[DaveW]

This sort of speculation is helpful rather than harmful.

Any of these could be correct and there is application that could be made from any of these thoughts.

I remember looking a few years ago at some of this and there seemed to be a cross reference somewhere that linked his past, but I can't seem to remember it.
It was obviously not a strong link, and I certainly don't remember it being conclusive......

[candlelight]

This sort of speculation is helpful rather than harmful.

Any of these could be correct and there is application that could be made from any of these thoughts.

I remember looking a few years ago at some of this and there seemed to be a cross reference somewhere that linked his past, but I can't seem to remember it.
It was obviously not a strong link, and I certainly don't remember it being conclusive......

Yes, I believe it is.  I am taking in all information on this subject.  I remember reading that Paul "might" have been married before he got saved.  However, someone thought his wife might have died.  I don't know if it was on OB that I heard this or on a Christian Facebook site.  I think it was mentioned on OB, b/c it was awhile ago that I heard it mentioned.  Have you heard this, brother?

[DaveW]

I am led to believe that part of the requirements to be on the Sanhedrin council was to be married, and on that basis Saul would have been married. Since his wife is not mentioned, it is assumed that she died sometime prior to his salvation.

I can't remember where I heard it, and it almost certainly from Jewish history and not Bible.
As I am no Jewish History expert I can not say how reliable that info is.

Maybe one of our members of Jewish heritage has knowledge of this.

[candlelight]

I am led to believe that part of the requirements to be on the Sanhedrin council was to be married, and on that basis Saul would have been married. Since his wife is not mentioned, it is assumed that she died sometime prior to his salvation.

I can't remember where I heard it, and it almost certainly from Jewish history and not Bible.
As I am no Jewish History expert I can not say how reliable that info is.

Maybe one of our members of Jewish heritage has knowledge of this.

Yes, that is what I have heard, too, Dave W.  Saul (Paul) would have been married b/c of the Jewish requirements of the Sanhedrin.  I also heard she died prior to his ministry for the Lord Jesus. 

No, it is not in the Bible.  It is probably in a Jewish history book, though.

 

Yes, SFIC's wife was saved out of Judaism.  Maybe she would know.