Hello

[Jeffrey]

After saying all that, welcome to the forum.  It is my hope that this group is a blessing to you and aids in your sanctification and walk with Christ as it has me.

Thank you, look forward to the fellowship

[Jeffrey]

But rejoice, you traded the Doors for THE DOOR!!

God is good brother 

[Ukulelemike]

I have become persuaded to believe reformed churches are following the Bible more than IFB church, not all because I've never been to all of them. Just the ones I was attending. 

 

Yes because if someone comes to church dressed inappropriately, that is really really evil!, Because Jesus was concerned about "standards" and not mercy or grace. {sarcasm}

First of all you have to tell me what is "modest dress/music" means,what It looks like. It means different things to different cultures in different parts of the country in different parts of the world. I have come to believe that the Gospel transcends cultures, music, dress, and their are meatier things to concern myself with at church than what a woman is wearing. I am a man, so it doesn't take much for me to get distracted by an attractive woman, regardless of what she is wearing.

Within the church, we should be dealing with the saved. When dealing with an unbeliever, or even an immature believer, we extend grace. But with believers, we should expect modest.

What is modesty? Its not a fashion or a style, as might change from culture to culture, as you suggest; it is, instead, an attitude, a quiet and meek spirit that doesn't seek its own attention and desires. and that attitude will normally be accompanied by modest dress, regardless of the culture. A modest spirit understands modest clothing, be it a dress, a suit, pants and shirt, whatever.

A long dress is not necessarily modest, if it is accompanied by a loud spirit, or extravagance in styles and accessorizing. But I can guarantee, a truly modest spirit will not be seen in one wearing tight, form-fitting clothing, plunging necklines, short skirt hemlines or sleveless, revealing shirts.

 

 

 

 

Funny, the pharisees said the same thing about Christ (Lk 15:2). You bring up testimony, I don't see that too much with the Lord Jesus. I see He was merciful and graceful towards us. When I finally started wrapping my mind around this, I really started to view my relationship with sinners in a different way. Matter of fact I don't think that we are to withdraw from culture, but rather engage it. Paul wrote to avoid brothers who weren't living right, not unbelievers,  I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth ' (Joh 17:15-17) Yes, we deal with the lost of the world, but we are not to be a part of the world. You seem to ambrace a particularly nasty part of the world. Perhaps to help the lost, you should be repudiating the wickdness of such a man as Jim Morrison and his actions that have taken him to hell, rather than glorifying him by taking his name.

 1 Cor 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

 

Jesus associated with the sinners, to seek the salvation of the sinners: he didn't glorify the sins or the sinners in their sin by taking their names: instead, He invites us to receive HIS new name in glory,

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." Rev 3:2

What the comment he made was in reference to, was your apparent glorification of a wicked man who died in his sins, glorifying excess and sin even to the end. This isn't Christian, its carnality. You are a believer glorying in wickedness of a wicked man-it was this type that Paul told to remove from among them-why? because a little leaven leaventh the whole lump. You brought in something from the wicked pasts of believers, bringing to mind their past sins which are better left in the past, and you have justified yourself for it. "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

"

[DaveW]

G'day Mr Mojo - a quick question.

Do people come to your church wearing bikinis?
Would a woman be accepted if she arrived topless?

If your answer to either of these is no then you also believe in standards, you just place that standard in a different place...........
;)

[OLD fashioned preacher]

I have become persuaded to believe reformed churches are following the Bible more than IFB church, not all because I've never been to all of them. Just the ones I was attending. 

 

Yes because if someone comes to church dressed inappropriately, that is really really evil!, Because Jesus was concerned about "standards" and not mercy or grace. {sarcasm}

First of all you have to tell me what is "modest dress/music" means,what It looks like. It means different things to different cultures in different parts of the country in different parts of the world. I have come to believe that the Gospel transcends cultures, music, dress, and their are meatier things to concern myself with at church than what a woman is wearing. I am a man, so it doesn't take much for me to get distracted by an attractive woman, regardless of what she is wearing.

 

 

 

 

Funny, the pharisees said the same thing about Christ (Lk 15:2). You bring up testimony, I don't see that too much with the Lord Jesus. I see He was merciful and graceful towards us. When I finally started wrapping my mind around this, I really started to view my relationship with sinners in a different way. Matter of fact I don't think that we are to withdraw from culture, but rather engage it. Paul wrote to avoid brothers who weren't living right, not unbelievers,

 1 Cor 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

In case you didn't read the "Online Baptist Rules" found by going to Home, look at bottom right and click on Online Baptist Rules ---- 

 

3) Feel free to quote the Bible, if you do we ask that you use the KJV. This is done to avoid confusion.
The Administrators and Moderators of this site believe that the KJV is Gods preserved Word for the English speaking people, and we ask that you respect that and use the KJV when quoting scripture.

 

You don't have to agree with it, just follow it while on here.

[Jeffrey]

G'day Mr Mojo - a quick question.

Do people come to your church wearing bikinis?
Would a woman be accepted if she arrived topless?

If your answer to either of these is no then you also believe in standards, you just place that standard in a different place...........

 If I cant find a chapter and verse on a subject, I cant expect anybody to abide by my "standards"

btw, in my area, anybody walking around nude would be arrested for indecent exposure.

[Jeffrey]

In case you didn't read the "Online Baptist Rules" found by going to Home, look at bottom right and click on Online Baptist Rules ---- 

 

3) Feel free to quote the Bible, if you do we ask that you use the KJV. This is done to avoid confusion.
The Administrators and Moderators of this site believe that the KJV is Gods preserved Word for the English speaking people, and we ask that you respect that and use the KJV when quoting scripture.

 

You don't have to agree with it, just follow it while on here.

it asked. Im not a Bibliotrist. 

[OLD fashioned preacher]

 and we ask that you respect that and use the KJV when quoting scripture.

 

 

I'm not bothering with the word games (yes, as one famous person [barack H. Obama] said,"words mean something"), the gist was you should respect the stand of Online Baptist and use the KJV. That is the prerogative of the administrator and owner to whom I am leaving any further dealings in this as he sees fit. Incidentally, there are several people on here who ARE NOT KJV only and even possibly (at least that is the impression I have received) some that are not even KJV preferred. BUT out of respect for the board request, they only post KJV and therefore are not considered belligerent in their behavior. 

 

Clear enough?

[DaveW]

If I cant find a chapter and verse on a subject, I cant expect anybody to abide by my "standards"
btw, in my area, anybody walking around nude would be arrested for indecent exposure.

So you are going to ignore the question rather than admit you have standards as well?

I would be pretty certain that your church would not let someone sing a special wearing only a bikini.
You can say what you like but that is exactly the kind of standard you deride others for, just the line is drawn in a different position.

The point is that EVERYONE has standards they accept. EVERYONE.
Even criminals have standards they hold too - they just draw the line differently.

The argument is never about having standards per se, it is actually about one person not liking where another person has drawn the line.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

 If I cant find a chapter and verse on a subject, I cant expect anybody to abide by my "standards"

btw, in my area, anybody walking around nude would be arrested for indecent exposure.

 

 

So you are going to ignore the question rather than admit you have standards as well?

I would be pretty certain that your church would not let someone sing a special wearing only a bikini.
You can say what you like but that is exactly the kind of standard you deride others for, just the line is drawn in a different position.

The point is that EVERYONE has standards they accept. EVERYONE.
Even criminals have standards they hold too - they just draw the line differently.

The argument is never about having standards per se, it is actually about one person not liking where another person has drawn the line.

Question definitely looks avoided. To put it another way: a woman claims to be a child of God and comes to church topless in Long Island, NY where it is legal for her to be topless. Is she dressed in modest attire?

[Jeffrey]

"Jesus associated with the sinners, to seek the salvation of the sinners: he didn't glorify the sins or the sinners in their sin by taking their names: instead, He invites us to receive HIS new name in glory,

  He did, but you notice He didn't associate with the "religious crowd" did He? He debated and rebuked them for their unbeleif and how they were looking for self glorification and lack of mercy and grace.

 

 

"What the comment he made was in reference to, was your apparent glorification of a wicked man who died in his sins, glorifying excess and sin even to the end. This isn't Christian, its carnality.

 i was doing neither. Your parents named you Mike, Im sure we can find some very bad people named Mike through history, Were your parents glorifying them? Besides as I mentioned earlier in the post, I named my dog Mojo

 

 

"You brought in something from the wicked pasts of believers, bringing to mind their past sins which are better left in the past, and you have justified yourself for it.

Then they dont understand their standing in Christ, I'll give you a hint, they are forgiven

 

 

""Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

yep and how about you? You know there is a second chapter, ill give ya another hint, Paul is talking to believers,.....

 

Rom 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience,not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.

6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking[a] anddo not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

[Jeffrey]

So you are going to ignore the question rather than admit you have standards as well?

i believe I answered you.....If I cant find a chapter and verse on a subject, I cant expect anybody to abide by my "standards" 

 

 

 

 

The argument is never about having standards per se, it is actually about one person not liking where another person has drawn the line.

The Standards issue arises when you have no Biblical basis for whatever your trying to nail down. I told you that said naked woman would be arrested  for public decency laws, if she waled around naked. Im sure at my house of worship, she would be approached about her dress, or lack thereof.

[DaveW]

So your church DOES HAVE STANDARDS.....
How is that different to the majority of IFB churches?
Most do not hold the standards in the way you are implying.

[DaveW]

Now, if you want to continue to post here, then out of courtesy to the board owner you should stop posting other versions.
There is no requirement that you change what you believe about bible versions, but the forum rules are clear, and have been clearly pointed out to you.

It is not a difficult concept - you should respect the owner of the website to which you are a visitor.

[DaveW]

And while I am on a roll.....


Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

It has been pointed out that your username is just such a stumblingblock to some here (not me by the way - I don't care) and you seem to have no regard for it.