Lo! He Comes With Clouds Descending,

[Invicta]

LO! He comes with clouds descending,

once for favoured sinners slain;

thousand thousand saints attending

swell the triumph of His train:

Hallelujah!

God appears on earth to reign.

 

*2 Every eye shall now behold Him

robed in dreadful majesty;

those who set at nought and sold Him,

pierced and nailed Him to the tree,

deeply wailing,

shall the true Messiah see.

 

*3 Every island, sea, and mountain,

heaven and earth, shall flee away;

all who hate Him must, confounded,

hear the trump proclaim the day;

come to judgment!

come to judgment! come away!

 

4 Now redemption, long expected,

see in solemn pomp appear!

All His saints, by man rejected,

now shall meet Him in the air:

Hallelujah!

See the day of God appear!

 

5 Yea, Amen! let all adore Thee,

high on Thine eternal throne!

Saviour, take the power and glory;

claim the kingdom for Thine own:

O come quickly!

Hallelujah! come, Lord, come!

 

John Cennick, 1718-55,

and Charles Wesley, 1707-88

* If so desired, these verses may be omitted.'p[

 

Why would somebody want to omit the two verses refering to judgment?

[John81]

A lot of churches these days only preach that God is love. They don't preach that God is also a God of judgment and justice. Singing about such things wouldn't fit in with their fluffy bunny sermonettes.

[Invicta]

Yes I took that from a hymn book ast it stands.

[Covenanter]

It seems Cennick's original words did not suit Wesley! See them all here.

 

 

Words: John Ce­nnick, Col­lect­ion of Sac­red Hymns, 1752; re­pub­lished & al­tered by Charles Wes­ley, 1758, and Mar­tin Ma­dan, 1760.

Actually I prefer the changes - better poetry & still a very powerful message.

[JerryNumbers]

When He comes for His own every eye will not behold Him.

 

Wow, why do people get so confused about this? I know, it can be confusing, yet how many times do the same ones keep getting it wrong?

 

Here is a good look & explanation how that will be.

 

1. Jesus’ second coming is in two phases, we all get a bit confused about this at times-

 A. At first Jesus comes back for His own, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 & 1 Corinthians 15:51-57-

 B. Later on Jesus comes back with His own to take His rightful place on David’s throne, Isaiah 9:7 page 721-

 C. The first phase of His coming is commonly called “The Rapture of the Church”-

  1. While the 2nd phase is commonly called the “Revelations”-

 

  The verses we just read is speaking about when Jesus’ comes in the air for his own, we commonly refer to as the rapture-

  We could also read about it in 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, page 1227-

 

2. While reading thru the Bible there seems to be some contradictions, that can only be understood if one understands the 2 phases of Jesus’ coming-

 

For instance, Revelations 16:15 reads:

“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepth his garments, least he walk naked, and they see his shame.”

 

Them in Revelations 1:7 we find:

“Behold, He cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him and all kindards shall wail 

[Invicta]

 

When He comes for His own every eye will not behold Him.

 

Wow, why do people get so confused about this? I know, it can be confusing, yet how many times do the same ones keep getting it wrong?

 

Here is a good look & explanation how that will be.

 

1. Jesus’ second coming is in two phases, we all get a bit confused about this at times-

 A. At first Jesus comes back for His own, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 & 1 Corinthians 15:51-57-

 B. Later on Jesus comes back with His own to take His rightful place on David’s throne, Isaiah 9:7 page 721-

 C. The first phase of His coming is commonly called “The Rapture of the Church”-

  1. While the 2nd phase is commonly called the “Revelations”-

 

  The verses we just read is speaking about when Jesus’ comes in the air for his own, we commonly refer to as the rapture-

  We could also read about it in 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, page 1227-

 

2. While reading thru the Bible there seems to be some contradictions, that can only be understood if one understands the 2 phases of Jesus’ coming-

 

For instance, Revelations 16:15 reads:

“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepth his garments, least he walk naked, and they see his shame.”

 

Them in Revelations 1:7 we find:

“Behold, He cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him and all kindards shall wail 

 

 

That is Brethren teaching and is not true.  Jesus is coming once with his migty angels to take vengeance on those who trouble us, and know not God. At that timne he will be glorified in his saints.   2 Thess. 1: 7-12.

[John81]

That is Brethren teaching and is not true.  Jesus is coming once with his migty angels to take vengeance on those who trouble us, and know not God. At that timne he will be glorified in his saints.   2 Thess. 1: 7-12.

Where do the new heaven and new earth fit in this timeline?

[JerryNumbers]

That is Brethren teaching and is not true.  Jesus is coming once with his migty angels to take vengeance on those who trouble us, and know not God. At that timne he will be glorified in his saints.   2 Thess. 1: 7-12.

 

No, its not! Its Bible teachings, its Bible doctrine, & its what those who follow Jesus has held to since the New Testament Days, its what God inspired holy man of old time to write in the Bible.

 

Read it, & use your Bible, study it out & you will see its right from the Bible.

 

Your 1st sentence is an accusation against me, I will not return it, I will leave the accusations to you.

 

Could you tell us what kind of church you attend?

[Covenanter]

Where do the new heaven and new earth fit in this timeline?

The NH&NE are brought into being when Jesus returns.

 

Acts 3:²⁰ And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

²¹ Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

 

2 Peter 3:⁷ But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

⁸ But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

⁹ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

¹⁰ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

¹¹ Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

¹² Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

¹³ Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

¹⁴ Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

¹⁵ And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;

 

There is no place at all in Peter's teaching for the disp scenario. Jesus' return will end the present creation, raise & judge the dead, and bring into being  new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Peter's millennium is clearly the present Gospel age, when the LORD is longsuffering, welcoming repentant sinners. The day of grace will end with Jesus' return in glory. 

 

2 Thes. 1:⁴ So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

⁵ Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

⁶ Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

⁷ And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

⁸ In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

⁹ Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

¹⁰ When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

Peter & Paul know NOTHING of a Darby/Scofield type tribulation/millennium dispensation.

[John81]

No, its not! Its Bible teachings, its Bible doctrine, & its what those who follow Jesus has held to since the New Testament Days, its what God inspired holy man of old time to write in the Bible.

 

Read it, & use your Bible, study it out & you will see its right from the Bible.

 

Your 1st sentence is an accusation against me, I will not return it, I will leave the accusations to you.

 

Could you tell us what kind of church you attend?

I understand the point you are trying to make but you should be careful about blanket statements.

 

There have been many in the past and today who follow Jesus but don't hold to this view of eschatology. Ones eschatological view doesn't prove whether one is or isn't a follower of Christ.

 

Even among ourselves (Baptists) there are many followers of Christ who have held and today hold different eschatological views. No doubt all those different views can't be right, but that doesn't mean they are not followers of Christ.

[ThePilgrim]

I understand the point you are trying to make but you should be careful about blanket statements.

 

There have been many in the past and today who follow Jesus but don't hold to this view of eschatology. Ones eschatological view doesn't prove whether one is or isn't a follower of Christ.

 

Even among ourselves (Baptists) there are many followers of Christ who have held and today hold different eschatological views. No doubt all those different views can't be right, but that doesn't mean they are not followers of Christ.

 

God bless,

Larry

[Invicta]

No, its not! Its Bible teachings, its Bible doctrine, & its what those who follow Jesus has held to since the New Testament Days, its what God inspired holy man of old time to write in the Bible.

 

Read it, & use your Bible, study it out & you will see its right from the Bible.

 

Your 1st sentence is an accusation against me, I will not return it, I will leave the accusations to you.

 

Could you tell us what kind of church you attend?

 

It is Brethren teaching. I spent many years in the Brethren and am well aquainted with the teaching.  I investigated its orinin and found it was far from bible teaching and none of our spiritual ancestors taught it, before Darby and the Brethren.  In fact before 1900, the Brethren were virtually the only ones teaching it.  Our ancestors taught that the papacy fulfilled all the prophecies of antichrist.  The Baptists and reformers, and before the reformation the Lollards, the Hussites and the Waldensans taught the same.  In that, theye were absolutely correct.  

 

I do read the bible and I see that dispensational teaching is not correct.

 

I do not consider that I made an accusation against you.  

 

I attend an Evangelical Baptist Church.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Invicta

[DaveW]

I just love the way that you main repetitive argument is "Darby/dispensational/brethren" as though one could not disagree with you without being aligned with these.

Personally I had never heard of Darby, have never been in a brethren church, and would not call myself dispensational, but I disagree with you on some things.

It indicates that your arguments are not strong when you resort to that rather than addressing and discussing the actual issues.

[John81]

I just love the way that you main repetitive argument is "Darby/dispensational/brethren" as though one could not disagree with you without being aligned with these.

Personally I had never heard of Darby, have never been in a brethren church, and would not call myself dispensational, but I disagree with you on some things.

It indicates that your arguments are not strong when you resort to that rather than addressing and discussing the actual issues.

Actually "if" some view or part of a view wasn't a part of Christianity until relatively recent history, that would be a very important thing to point out.

 

As well, "if" such a claim could be proven incorrect, then that would force the discussion in another direction.

 

Some views regarding the end times are difficult to study due to so much material out there of a more modern variety that is clearly biased in favor of, or against, this or that particular point or view. As well, much of what is available is rather muddled because an author will claim his view is correct and point to early Baptists or "pre-Baptists" claiming they held the same views, but then when one follows up on those claims there is no evidence what the author claimed is actually true. In some cases one finds out that those an author claimed held to the same view he does, actually held to something entirely different.

 

I've read countless books and articles and done extensive internet studies and while there are some things which seem rather clear, there are other matters which are not.

[JerryNumbers]

It is Brethren teaching. I spent many years in the Brethren and am well aquainted with the teaching.  I investigated its orinin and found it was far from bible teaching and none of our spiritual ancestors taught it, before Darby and the Brethren.  In fact before 1900, the Brethren were virtually the only ones teaching it.  Our ancestors taught that the papacy fulfilled all the prophecies of antichrist.  The Baptists and reformers, and before the reformation the Lollards, the Hussites and the Waldensans taught the same.  In that, theye were absolutely correct.  

 

I do read the bible and I see that dispensational teaching is not correct.

 

I do not consider that I made an accusation against you.  

 

I attend an Evangelical Baptist Church.

 

Sorry, but your not bringing Baptist teachings to this board & you have not been taught Baptist teachings, Bible doctrine, Bible truths. If that's what you've been taught in that church you need to move on finding another one that proclaims the whole truth. Its sad a church with the name Baptist on it would teach such a thing.