For By Works You Are Saved And Not Of Your Self...

[The Glory Land]

For by grace ye are saved and not of your self, less anyone should boast. How do you know if your church is not adding works, for you to earn your salvation? There is do's and do nots, in the bible, Then there is help from men, how can you tell, for there sins that are seen, and there are sins not seen. Are the sins seen bad, and the ones you cannot see free?  

[Salyan]

Um... sorry, GL, but I'm afraid your post is not computing. Quite possibly it's the fault of my brain - 6 hours sleep does not increase mental alertness. Could you try to explain again exactly what your question is?

[robmac68]

For by grace ye are saved and not of your self, less anyone should boast. How do you know if your church is not adding works, for you to earn your salvation? There is do's and do nots, in the bible, Then there is help from men, how can you tell, for there sins that are seen, and there are sins not seen. Are the sins seen bad, and the ones you cannot see free?  

¹³ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

¹⁴ Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

Isaiah 29...

 

I don't know if a list of do's and don'ts would transfer over to works salvation, but some wise men get so wrapped up in their own wisdom they transfer it over to their religion and will make a whole list of commandments to add to God's commandemnts.  They will teach the love of God through commandments. 

 

edited to add:  I hope this topic is not being connected to your topic of drinking.  I don't believe anyone in that thread (whether those who drink a little or those who call it sin) is trying to put works towards gaining salvation. 

[Steve Schwenke]

Oh, he's just upset at us abstainers because in his view we are adding "works" to stay saved. 

The alcohol promoters are confused - I don't think any of us believe that we KEEP our salvation by keeping a list of "rules."  And I think we all answered that very clearly at the beginning.  What happened was the original question turned into a debate about drinking in general.

[swathdiver]

What?  

 

Me thinks this sipping saint has taken too many sips today.  

[JerryNumbers]

A case of can't stand any disagreement, & the refusal to give up anything for our Lord & Savior Jesus, & his way of trying to spite those who have proved his drinking is not the least bit Christ like.

 

And there's some, no many, who completely refuse to do as Jesus ask's His brothers & sisters in this verse.

 

Mt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

[Eric Stahl]

1 Corinthians 10:23

23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

[robmac68]

Oh, he's just upset at us abstainers because in his view we are adding "works" to stay saved. 

The alcohol promoters are confused - I don't think any of us believe that we KEEP our salvation by keeping a list of "rules."  And I think we all answered that very clearly at the beginning.  What happened was the original question turned into a debate about drinking in general.

Have you ever heard that if a man wears pink, it is a sin?  How about if you have any color of Bible other than black, it is sin?  I don't know if you have, but I have.  Now the people who say this will not say that you have to abide by these rules in order to stay saved, but they still call it sin and they use the Bible to do so.  If I said I didn't believe it was sin to wear pink and have a blue Bible, would you say I was a promoter of men wearing pink?  A promoter of the blue Bible maybe?  How about men wearing pink while carrying pink Bibles?  If someone feels drinking is not a sin, I don't know if I would make the jump to "alcohol promoter".

[Covenanter]

"How about if you have any color of Bible other than black, it is sin?"

 

All Bibles should be read.

[The Glory Land]

Oh, he's just upset at us abstainers because in his view we are adding "works" to stay saved. 

The alcohol promoters are confused - I don't think any of us believe that we KEEP our salvation by keeping a list of "rules."  And I think we all answered that very clearly at the beginning.  What happened was the original question turned into a debate about drinking in general.

 

Oh, he's just upset at us abstainers because in his view we are adding "works" to stay saved. 

The alcohol promoters are confused - I don't think any of us believe that we KEEP our salvation by keeping a list of "rules."  And I think we all answered that very clearly at the beginning.  What happened was the original question turned into a debate about drinking in general.

 

 

I don't promote alcohol, but I don't go around sending anyone to a place called Hell, for drinking a glass of wine either.

[The Glory Land]

Have you ever heard that if a man wears pink, it is a sin?  How about if you have any color of Bible other than black, it is sin?  I don't know if you have, but I have.  Now the people who say this will not say that you have to abide by these rules in order to stay saved, but they still call it sin and they use the Bible to do so.  If I said I didn't believe it was sin to wear pink and have a blue Bible, would you say I was a promoter of men wearing pink?  A promoter of the blue Bible maybe?  How about men wearing pink while carrying pink Bibles?  If someone feels drinking is not a sin, I don't know if I would make the jump to "alcohol promoter".

 

 

I do have a very light color pink dress shirt, look great". Maybe I can wear it one day, visit as their guest speaker. Preach on judging the Saints. .

[Salyan]

We aren't told not to judge, just to judge righteous judgement. If we didn't occasionally do that with the saints, it would be awfully hard to edify, sharpen or convert (James 5 style) them. :wink

[John81]

Have you ever heard that if a man wears pink, it is a sin?  How about if you have any color of Bible other than black, it is sin?  I don't know if you have, but I have.  Now the people who say this will not say that you have to abide by these rules in order to stay saved, but they still call it sin and they use the Bible to do so.  If I said I didn't believe it was sin to wear pink and have a blue Bible, would you say I was a promoter of men wearing pink?  A promoter of the blue Bible maybe?  How about men wearing pink while carrying pink Bibles?  If someone feels drinking is not a sin, I don't know if I would make the jump to "alcohol promoter".

Yes, I've heard both of those. I've encountered those who say men must only wear white dress shirts, some churches demand this of pastors or any other speakers in their church. I've heard assaults upon any Bible that isn't black and leather (or at least leather-like), as they denounce any other color of Bible cover, hardback Bibles and any Bible much different from what they have.

 

I've also heard the idea it's a sin to have anything other than a wooden pulpit. According to some it's a sin for a man to wear a beard (they claim it's a sign of rebellion) while there are also some who claim it's a sin for a man to not wear a beard (they claim it's unnatural and a sign of a man appearing as a woman).

 

How about those who say a woman must wear a head covering; some even specify the type and/or style of hair covering. There are the claims that if a woman's hair isn't at least "this long" she's in sin, if a man's hair isn't "like this" he's in sin.

 

Some claim an unruly child means the parents are in sin. Some hold that anyone who questions the pastor about something is engaging in the sin of rebellion and stirring division. There are those who claim the pastor is to have total authority over all who attend "his church" and it's only through that pastor that any in the congregation can be blessed, protected and provided for by the Lord.

 

Just as the Pharisees added a plethora of rules upon people which weren't from Scripture, we have the same around us today.

[Covenanter]

Seems as if these folk are creating new laws to add to the Scriptures & are themselves in thesame condition as the Galatians "bewitchers."

 

What do we need to add to John 20:31 ?

³¹ But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

There we see the double aspect of living by faith - saving faith in Christ that results in an active life in his name. And if we have eternal life, we cannot but live it:

Gal. 5:23 ..... against such there is no law.

²⁴ And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

²⁵ If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

We do not need a new set of cursed laws.

[The Glory Land]

We aren't told not to judge, just to judge righteous judgement. If we didn't occasionally do that with the saints, it would be awfully hard to edify, sharpen or convert (James 5 style) them.

 

 

True, how about those christians that have pets? They pay hundred of dollars to keep it, and feed, heath, toys, and more. When a missionary comes to their church, then  they say, we are broke, no money?  But they will not drink a glass of wine, this makes them a great christian....