Carnality Test

[John81]

LOL @ BroMatt...

By the way, God says that comparing ourselves among ourselves is not wise. Now I know the original test was supposed to be "private" but really...this type of thing encourages us to say things like "Wow. Well I don't even HAVE a tv. I must be better than my neighbor who has two."

"I don't have a motorcycle....that Harley owner must not be as close to God."

"I dress like an Amish person so God is more happy with me than other ladies in church."

(I don't even understand the logic behind the gun one, so I won't go there. Other than Luke 22:

³⁵And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
³⁶Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
³⁷For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
³⁸And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

If we find ourselves thinking such things then the list has served a good purpose in helping to expose our sinful attitude of heart.

[Pastor Matt]

I do not think I missed the point, I just think that I took the question exactly as they were typed. The question I answered is "Name three super models." Knowing the names is not being Carnal. If it was, then God is carnal. I think the question should have been rephrased.
The question that should be asked is, "Is there anything in this world that you put in front of God?"

The gun question, was rather odd also. I mean, when David fought Goliath, did he not have trust in God because he brought a slingshot to the fight? I mean, if he really trusted in God, he wouldn't have brought any weapons at all. I realize that may seem silly, but that is the same principle as this question being presented here.

I'm just trying to present that the objects are not the problem, but rather the heart.

[John81]

Wait.....

So, everyone has to be equal? What if God chooses to bless you with something extra? It is good to give things away....We have bought groceries for people before who were in need, and given money to people, etc. Not saying we should not. But to say we shouldn't buy something if someone else is in need....that might be what God wants for you, but that might not be what God wants for everyone.

BTW I don't know any Christians who have four cars haha. I did grow up in a five bedroom home in South Dakota but it wasn't like it was a fancy lavish home. I don't know anybody here who has a five bedroom home, that I know of. Again, we're comparing people to other people when we do not know the whole situation.

Maybe God is blessing one person for being faithful in sacrificial giving, while He is not blessing another because the other doesn't even tithe? Did you think of that? We should help people, but we also should not have to walk around in guilt for buying something that God gives us to enjoy. What if the person with more money works harder for a living than the person with less? Its communistic to think that the one with more ought to give to the one with less, other than just random acts of charity which is always a good thing.

I know people who can afford to take better and nicer vacations than us, but there are others who cannot. We are kind of right in the middle. God has blessed each family according as is in His will. While we should be willing to help the poor (The Bible does say to do that) I do not think it is our command to try to equal out everybody's situations. Because in time, things do often even out....and/or people end up reaping what they sow.

While I absolutely don't believe in the false equality of humanism, Scripture does indicate the early Christians cared so much for one another they took care to help one another so they were all doing well.

Scripture also teaches that to the one who is given more, more is expected. If God grants us more in material goods we are expected to give more. That doesn't mean we have to give all we have to those who have less, but it does mean we should be careful not to become hoarders or overextravegant.

Scripture also makes distinctions between helping the lost poor and helping those in the faith. Those in Christ are our brothers/sisters and we should care for them as such. The lost poor we should help as we can with the main hope in doing so to bring them to Christ.

The world takes very close note of those churches where there may be very wealthy folks and very poor folks and the wealthy build larger garages to hold their collection of sports cars while giving no assistance to their poor brothers/sisters in Christ.

Everything we do is to be to the glory of God and everything we do sends a message.

[John81]

We live in a rural area and I want my wife and daughter to have cell phones in case the car breaks down somewhere. I rarely have need of one because I rarely call to just 'chit-chat'. I use my busness phone and email to correspond with customers, then I leave the work at work. I rarely even answer the phones at home.Anyway, you're right; It's not about how much "stuff" we have it's how much "stuff" has us. "Love not the world. neither the things that are in the world......" " ....a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he posesseth"

Amen!

[Seth Doty]

I would think a little better "carnality test" would be to have a couple people who have a tendency to be blunt and that you know well rate you on a scale of 1-10 on each of the characteristics in 2nd Peter 1:5-7. Hopefully most of us don't require a test and a checklist in order to figure out when we are being carnal though. I dare say Micah 7:4 could apply far to often even in IFB circles.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Seth-Doty

[Anon]

I think you can have every answer on that list answered "perfectly" yet still be proud...still tell lies....still gossip...listen to worldly music and have worldly desires...and be an offense to God and as carnal as can be.

Or you can own a gun, know a few supermodels (they're only in every checkout line and every internet news headline), watch a bit of tv, have an unsaved friend, own a motorcycle (great on gas! Wise with God's money??) and absolutely have a great relationship with God.

I don't think I missed the point at all...because the "checklist" isn't a Biblical one.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance....do we have these things in our lives? Sometimes I think we get so concerned about "looking" right to other Baptists and "acting" right around other Baptists and comparing ourselves among ourselves (which is not wise) that we don't have much love, we have zero joy, we don't have peace, we aren't longsuffering, we aren't gentle or good, we have very little faith, we certainly are not meek, and we only have exterior temperance.

IFB have a big problem worrying so much about the negatives they forget the positives. (And I can definitely say, myself included.)

I'm sorry if I came across too harsh...I'm a little cranky and impatient (yep! negative! haha) this week and I don't mean to take it out on a public forum. But I still mean what I say...if maybe I should have said it in a nicer way. :-)

[1Timothy115]

LOL @ BroMatt...

By the way, God says that comparing ourselves among ourselves is not wise. Now I know the original test was supposed to be "private" but really...this type of thing encourages us to say things like "Wow. Well I don't even HAVE a tv. I must be better than my neighbor who has two."

"I don't have a motorcycle....that Harley owner must not be as close to God."

"I dress like an Amish person so God is more happy with me than other ladies in church."

(I don't even understand the logic behind the gun one, so I won't go there. Other than Luke 22:

³⁵And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
³⁶Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
³⁷For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
³⁸And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

I can Amen this one.

[1Timothy115]

If we find ourselves thinking such things then the list has served a good purpose in helping to expose our sinful attitude of heart.

I suppose the Roman Church would agree with that statement; don't they have a list of saints they pray to for focus on God, sin, etc?

[2Tim215]

Wait.....

So, everyone has to be equal? What if God chooses to bless you with something extra? It is good to give things away....We have bought groceries for people before who were in need, and given money to people, etc. Not saying we should not. But to say we shouldn't buy something if someone else is in need....that might be what God wants for you, but that might not be what God wants for everyone.

BTW I don't know any Christians who have four cars haha. I did grow up in a five bedroom home in South Dakota but it wasn't like it was a fancy lavish home. I don't know anybody here who has a five bedroom home, that I know of. Again, we're comparing people to other people when we do not know the whole situation.

Maybe God is blessing one person for being faithful in sacrificial giving, while He is not blessing another because the other doesn't even tithe? Did you think of that? We should help people, but we also should not have to walk around in guilt for buying something that God gives us to enjoy. What if the person with more money works harder for a living than the person with less? Its communistic to think that the one with more ought to give to the one with less, other than just random acts of charity which is always a good thing.

I know people who can afford to take better and nicer vacations than us, but there are others who cannot. We are kind of right in the middle. God has blessed each family according as is in His will. While we should be willing to help the poor (The Bible does say to do that) I do not think it is our command to try to equal out everybody's situations. Because in time, things do often even out....and/or people end up reaping what they sow.

I think you missed my point:

When we realize that everything we have belongs to God then I think most of us would manage our finances, our lives etc better.

[sissytishad]

I think the main point with the guns aspect is not a matter of whether it's good or bad to have a gun, but whether or not our trust for protection is in the gun or do we trust God.

While under certain circumstances I would be willing and able to use a weapon to defend my family, my trust is in God. I trust God to keep us safe, I trust God to grant me the wisdom to know if I need to use a weapon, I trust God to grant me the ability to rightly and successfully use a weapon if necessary, and I trust God with the outcome.

On the other hand, there are some who take the view that God's not going to protect them so they have to do it themselves. Some have the idea that if they have a gun they have all the protection they need, they don't need to rely on God.

When David faced Goliath he took his sling and stones but his trust was in the Lord.

I understand now what you mean. We have trusted God for the last 4 years (when we moved here) to protect us but We do have a gun to protect our family as backup. We think of a gun as a means for a back up plan if something happened such as a earthquake, we would be able to hunt for food to feed our kids. I think a gun is a tool not a toy or something that I love more then God. If God told us to get rid of all of them we would do it today.

[John81]

I would think a little better "carnality test" would be to have a couple people who have a tendency to be blunt and that you know well rate you on a scale of 1-10 on each of the characteristics in 2nd Peter 1:5-7. Hopefully most of us don't require a test and a checklist in order to figure out when we are being carnal though. I dare say Micah 7:4 could apply far to often even in IFB circles.

It's a blessed thing to have "accountability partners", better still if these are actual true, biblical friends. Sometimes in our own evaluations we miss things, are blinded to something or choose to overlook something.

A specific checklist isn't a necessity, and the closer we walk with the Lord should be less needeful, but we should always be taking inventory of our lives, examining our walk, our priorities, where we spend our time, our money, etc.

[irishman]

I think that most of you missed the point. It is baffling that if it is not written in black and white for you, you don't understand it. Some did grasp the meaning though, thank the Lord for that. Not everything is written for us, but that does not change it's value. If you can't understand it, leave it alone.

[1Timothy115]

I think that most of you missed the point. It is baffling that if it is not written in black and white for you, you don't understand it. Some did grasp the meaning though, thank the Lord for that. Not everything is written for us, but that does not change it's value. If you can't understand it, leave it alone.

You wrote in English sentences and it isn't hard to understand. I grasped the meaning and I do take measure of myself based on the word of God. You provided a list of things from today which could become a man's master if he didn't put God's truth first. I use 1 Tim 1:15 to keep myself in perspective with God and any "toys" he allows me to have. I think you did a fine job; my prayer list includes other things. I do appreciate you being here and would never want to discourage you from continuing to provide meaningful content and commentary. If I have offended you please accept my apology. Edited January 18, 2012 by 1Tim115

[heartstrings]

I think that most of you missed the point. It is baffling that if it is not written in black and white for you, you don't understand it. Some did grasp the meaning though, thank the Lord for that. Not everything is written for us, but that does not change it's value. If you can't understand it, leave it alone.

. Every moral decision we find ourselves having to make in this world, has an answer in the Word of God if anyone cares to search for it. It may not always be addressed directly or word for word, but it is clear and definite just the same if one has any God-given understanding at all. For instance: The Bible does not say "thou shalt not abort an unborn child". But it contains passages about having something called "natural affection" and about how God forms babies in the womb . Then there's the fact that the Bible refers to such things as women "being with child" instead of being with "fetus" and Exodus 21:22-23 even refers to an aborted child as a "life". The Bible says things like "Love worketh no ill to his neighbor" and is "the fulfilling of the law". So in any situation you can ask yourself "is what I am about to do do going to adversely affect someone else? Becasue even that advice comes from the black words on the white pages of the Word of God. So, I say again, if you're walking down the dark path and there is something covered by a shadow....any thing and any shadow....the "lamp" of the word of God is bright enough to shed the light of truth on it.

[sissytishad]

I too grasp the meaning for everything written but the gun confused me about why it was in there. I think that we all need to look at our selves when dealing with any matter. WHile some are openly sinning that does not mean that we are all without sin. We are human and we need to make sure we keep up with our own sins before talking about others.

I read my bible more then my husband does that does not make me a better christian then him since he likes to read a chapter and think about it for a few days. Were I read more then one chapter a day and I dont think about it for that long of a time.

I think that the test was posted should have all of us questioning if there is any thing standing between us and Jesus ,such was the case of the young man that didnt want to give up his money to follow God but he did everything else right. So there can always be one thing that stands between us and God. One thing for sure since reading and doing the test I realized were I could be starting to let things get in the way even though they were not on the list.