that mystical man in the red suit

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The purpose of a parable was to teach a spiritual truth.

What spiritual truth is there in telling children that there is a man in a red suit who comes every year to give toys to those who are good? Such a story points to someone other than Christ.

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

To teach the children of a man who has the same powers Jesus has, (omniscience) is very dangerous. We are to train our children in the way they should go. Teaching them such nonsense as there being a man who apparently never dies (an imitation of Christ?) knows all (an imitation of Christ?) calls children to him (an imitation of Christ?) wears red and white (an imitation of Christ?) lives in the North (an imitation of Christ?) is opening doors for that child to turn from their only hope of Salvation.

Sure, one may teach that child about Christ too. But there is always the possibility that that child could turn away from Christ when the reality sinks in that mom, dad, or both lied to them about a man in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer.

Such teachings of the man in the red suit should not be taught in the Christian home... or any other home for that matter.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

I'm going to disagree somewhat with the relegation of the term "imagination" only to things never experienced by the primary party.

When reading of "the seemingly boundless azure sky pierced by crimson fingers of light" in a narrative of sunset, your setting is totally different at the time of reading. It requires, therefore, "imagination" to allow the printed page to "transport" (lets see how many are substantively reading instead of keying on "buzz words") you into the scene.

It takes "speculation" to conjure a sight, taste, etc of something (or someone) you've never experienced.

Edited December 31, 2011 by OLD fashioned

[JerryNumbers]

It does not take a mind that been filled with fairy tales, once upon a time stories, a mind that has been taught to use every imagination, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us what it takes.

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

It does not take a mind that been filled with fairy tales, once upon a time stories, a mind that has been taught to use every imagination, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us what it takes.

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

You may not have been responding to my post, but in case you were --- I was dealing with the common mistake (found in a prior post) of making imagination and speculation synonymous. Faith is another thing entirely. Faith (well founded or not so well founded) results in action. I stand on a ladder without running tests on it due to faith in a company seeking to maintain sales via reputation via product track record. I responded to the invitation to "come unto me" due to faith in the reputation of He who is called "Faithful and True" when in the Word of God it was shown that the God of the Word would hearken to my broken and contrite heart.

I know some things about Heaven because He who "cannot lie" told us in the Bible (faith), some things I may speculate due to apparent alluding in the Word. I've been in tempestuous seas with contrary winds, but since I abide in a landlocked state, I have to imagine the scene in the Scripture (had I been with the disciples at that time, I could then use recollection) Edited December 31, 2011 by OLD fashioned

[DennisD]

I've found over the years that Santa, while seemingly an innocent tale...has taken over the Christmas holiday to a point where he has become the reason for the season and takes away from Christ. To me, it's unacceptable. Only about 3 years ago did we decide that Santa would have no part of Christmas in our house. My daughter just turned 3 on 27 December and Santa is used so frequently (commercials, department stores, cartoons, etc) during Christmas that she believes in him. She is only 3 so she doesn't understand fully but that's what we are fighting.

So, while I understand the one side believing Santa shows some semblance of "good"...if he takes away from Christ in anyway, it's not good. We should be very careful to think we can easily go up against the world with regards to our kids. Sometimes, the world wins...(even when you might be dedicated Christian parents).

[LindaR]

I've found over the years that Santa, while seemingly an innocent tale...has taken over the Christmas holiday to a point where he has become the reason for the season and takes away from Christ. To me, it's unacceptable. Only about 3 years ago did we decide that Santa would have no part of Christmas in our house. My daughter just turned 3 on 27 December and Santa is used so frequently (commercials, department stores, cartoons, etc) during Christmas that she believes in him. She is only 3 so she doesn't understand fully but that's what we are fighting.

So, while I understand the one side believing Santa shows some semblance of "good"...if he takes away from Christ in anyway, it's not good. We should be very careful to think we can easily go up against the world with regards to our kids. Sometimes, the world wins...(even when you might be dedicated Christian parents).

After listening to the James Knox message on Santa Claus (I posted the link in this thread), I am convinced there is NOTHING good about Santa Claus and the "semblance of good" comes from those "professing Christians in sheep's clothing" (Matthew 7:15). Santa Claus does more than "take away from Christ", he REPLACES Christ. He is a false god.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Edited December 31, 2011 by LindaR

[DennisD]

After listening to the James Knox message on Santa Claus (I posted the link in this thread), I am convinced there is NOTHING good about Santa Claus and the "semblance of good" comes from those "professing Christians in sheep's clothing" (Matthew 7:15). Santa Claus does more than "take away from Christ", he REPLACES Christ. He is a false god.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

There is nothing in your post I could refute or disagree with.

[JerryNumbers]

You may not have been responding to my post, but in case you were --- I was dealing with the common mistake (found in a prior post) of making imagination and speculation synonymous. Faith is another thing entirely. Faith (well founded or not so well founded) results in action. I stand on a ladder without running tests on it due to faith in a company seeking to maintain sales via reputation via product track record. I responded to the invitation to "come unto me" due to faith in the reputation of He who is called "Faithful and True" when in the Word of God it was shown that the God of the Word would hearken to my broken and contrite heart.

I know some things about Heaven because He who "cannot lie" told us in the Bible (faith), some things I may speculate due to apparent alluding in the Word. I've been in tempestuous seas with contrary winds, but since I abide in a landlocked state, I have to imagine the scene in the Scripture (had I been with the disciples at that time, I could then use recollection)

We do have 'word pictures' of both heaven & hell within the pages of the Bible, so we actually do not need imagination, if we use imagination and not the 'word pictures,' we will not truly have the likeness of heaven within out mind.

[Annie]

I'm going to disagree somewhat with the relegation of the term "imagination" only to things never experienced by the primary party.

When reading of "the seemingly boundless azure sky pierced by crimson fingers of light" in a narrative of sunset, your setting is totally different at the time of reading. It requires, therefore, "imagination" to allow the printed page to "transport" (lets see how many are substantively reading instead of keying on "buzz words") you into the scene.

It takes "speculation" to conjure a sight, taste, etc of something (or someone) you've never experienced.

I am merely using the word as defined in the dictionary: "imagine: to form a mental picture of something not present." I do not mean to relegate the term in the way you have described. It means more than just picturing "things never experienced." It does, however, include what you have described...Anytime one is "picturing" something in his mind (because he cannot experience the thing with his physical senses, since it is not there with him), he is "imagining."

Speculation is one kind of imagining. So is recollection. There is also creative imagination, which occurs when someone pictures entirely new events/concepts which are sourced in his own mind (as opposed to a printed page or something he has heard).

I was making the point that it requires imagination to understand what God has told us about Himself because we cannot experience God with our senses. I don't have a problem with the word speculation, except that it tends to connote doubt, IMO. Edited January 2, 2012 by Annie

[JerryNumbers]

Christmas is not about that mystical man in red suit, & just in case some of you think I'm defending him, I am not, Christmas is all about the Savior, Jesus, the Lamb of God.

There is no place in Christmas for a fictitious man named Santa Claus that brings presents to children on the 25th of December.

I watched a part of one of the Christmas movies about Santa. I recall in it they stressed to the child, you must believe in Santa. That is sicking stressing that the child must believe a lie! Believe a mystical man will bring them presents.

[Annie]

I've found over the years that Santa, while seemingly an innocent tale...has taken over the Christmas holiday to a point where he has become the reason for the season and takes away from Christ. To me, it's unacceptable. Only about 3 years ago did we decide that Santa would have no part of Christmas in our house. My daughter just turned 3 on 27 December and Santa is used so frequently (commercials, department stores, cartoons, etc) during Christmas that she believes in him. She is only 3 so she doesn't understand fully but that's what we are fighting.

Dennis, I rarely give parenting advice, especially when it is unsolicited. But I saw this post and thought I'd offer a couple of suggestions for you to take or leave as you see fit.
None of my kids ever "believed in" Santa Claus, and it wasn't because we sat down and "had a talk" with them. Matter of fact, when our oldest (who is now 13) was two years old, she saw a Santa waving at passing cars outside a restaurant. She piped up in her baby voice: "Look, Mommy! Noah!" We had never mentioned anything about Santa (for or against) to her. As I look back, I realize that developing the moral imagination of the kids had a lot to do with what we exposed them to--what they saw as "real" and "true" and "good" and "beautiful"--and what we did not expose them to. To this day, none of our kids are allowed to watch cartoons or commercials (or really anything) on TV. They don't even ask; it's just not on their radar...They're too busy working on the "fort" in our backyard woods, or reading, working, or building roller coasters with K'nex. Occasionally they'll watch a DVD--something we've previewed and approved. And sometimes (very rarely) they'll watch a football game with Dad...minus all the commercials--we love TiVo! If the kids (when they were younger) were to see a Santa in a department store and ask about him, I'd just remind them that it was a nice grandpa playing dress-up and spending time with kids. They grew up knowing that Santa was pretend, and when they were old enough, we'd tell them the real story of St. Nicholas, to help them fill in the gaps.

I guess I'd just encourage you to continue to be watchful about what's going into the ear and eye gates of your wee one. You can totally control media exposure as the parent. Also, I really wouldn't stress about her "believing in" Santa right now...If you cut off all of the unnecessary exposure to him, the memory of him will be vague by next Christmas, and she'll be able to understand more of your explanations about the grandpas in the red suits.

I know some of my friends think we're too strict with our kids...They think we are control freaks. All I can say is, "Guilty as charged!" The moral imaginations of our kids are just that important to us! Their loves will be shaped by what they see and hear and learn to like/love, and we're not about to let them be shaped by cheap substitutes for God's real and true and deep gifts. Edited January 2, 2012 by Annie

[BlessedChristianlady8]

Santa Claus is based on the book night before Christmas and his reindeers before rudolf, rudolf was created by montgomery wards stores later on in the early 1900's then coca cola took on the modern Santa Clause we have today, we treat santa as a fun person and in movies only, when we have children , they will know that their gifts will come from the Lord and the Lord blesses us each year with the funds to get them what they want and do. They will still have treats and fun stuff from Santa but that is going to be called from a Santa's helper, i believe Santa was created so children would go into bed the night before Christmas so the parents can wrap up their gifts in piece without the child snooping. I agree that Christmas and all holidays are commericalized but, there are things during Christmas I like to have still that is Santa, yes he is not real its like having your children have a picture taken with Mickey mouse at Christmas.