Racial Integration

[Guest]

Does anyone know which states were most resistant toward racial integration?

Do you think the folks in those states are angry they were forced to give in?

[JerryNumbers]

No idea, but I do know that here at my home town the Black people wanted to keep their very own school, & fought them being combined.

[John81]

I don't know how the States rated, but Boston and Chicago were among the most resistant cities.

There was a documentary done which touched on this subject and the documentarians were surprised to discover that non-southern states were the most resistant to integration and many of their cities had laws in effect which prevented full integration and how the wealthy whites in those states purposefully excluded people of color by various means from where they live and do other things.

It's unclear what you mean by "angry" but there are certainly folks across the country who see that there have been some good and some bad aspects with regards to integration. Some of the bad stems from how it was brought about, by force rather than allowing things to change over time, and simply the differences among some people.

Any time man tries to force his will upon others there will be problems. Attempts to force non-existent equality, regardless of what people groups we are looking at, will always be filled with problems. Part of the problem is that in order to force equality it's necessary to use measures which force bad upon some and unmerited priviledge upon others...ironically, something the forcers of equality claim to be against.

[JerryNumbers]

Oh, & of course in that day our governor called out the National Guard! I believe it was front page news across the country.


And what I stated in my pervious post I only know to be true in our area. I can not speak for other school districts.

The blacks had a pretty good school in that day, had their own school board, & ect. Why would anyone want to give that up? And since those day our government has really messed up many local public schools making them unfit for the Christian family to send their children to them.

[John81]

Indeed the end of local, community schools governed by locals has been a very bad aspect of forced integration. All people of all races have suffered badly because of this.

[JerryNumbers]

That is true, yet the government will even make the public school much worse than they now are within the next few years.

[Covenanter]

A lot of the problem is concerned with "privilege." I presume you are all white, so you are concerned about maintained the white privileges. The longer you keep "them" under, the more bitter the struggle. My exams 54 yours ago required an essay on "Racial segregation in South Africa & USA." I don't remember what I wrote, but I was against it. When will the Red Indians get integration?

The other side of "integration by force" is "segregation by force."

No, I can't speak for the situation over there - I live in Southall where white English is a small minority. Our Pastor is Pakistani, married to a converted Sikh. If a person looks English, she's probably Polish ....

My children went to state schools, with a majority of Indian pupils. Three got degrees & they all secured good jobs. I play tennis with Punjabi Sikh, Sri Lankan Hindu, Sudanese Muslim, French Catholic, etc, etc.

Why is segregation still an issue?

My mother was Doris Day, & one of her (namesake's) greatest hits includes the line: "the beautiful Indian country that I love." (Black Hills of Dakota - "Calamity Jane.")

[HappyChristian]

Concerned with maintaining the white privileges? Okay. That's a wee bit presumptuous, methinks. Blacks in this country are not "kept under" by whites. In fact, if any are kept under, it is by fellow blacks who want them to toe a certain line and not think for themselves. White people and hispanic and any other "color," or ethnic identity who follow a particular idea because of the color of their skin are being kept under by those who promote exactly that (neo-nazi being a perfect example, as well as black liberation theology subscribers).

The way blacks were treated in post-Civil War days was absolutely pathetic and wrong - both in the north and the south. Attempts to right that wrong have backfired with Affirmative Action, which has created an attitude amongst many blacks (though by no means all of them) of entitlement.

I agree that whether it is segregation or integration, if it is forced, it's wrong. Why is it still an issue? Because there are people who want to see "social change" and who use black/white relations to create trouble. Segregation can be a hot-button ticket for them to rouse intense emotion - which is the first step to (at times violent) social change.

[no name joe]

iWe still see and feel the effects of the sin of slavery and the way black people were treated by law post Civil War through the 1950's and 60's. The sin of one generation can definitely impact future generations, as we see today. Oppressing people through slavery and discriminatory laws has caused much of the generational poverty, poor education rates, etc. we see today. We have instituted genrational poverty in this country beginning with slavery and the actions of our state governments post civil war.

A sad chapter in the hisotry of our nation, and we will continue to pay the price for years to come.

[John81]

First of all, slavery is not a sin. Secondly, the discriminatory laws came into place as a result of governmental attempts to force "equality". Thirdly, more than enough time has passed for those willing to put the past behind them and rise up. Fourth, the real reason there are so many problems in this area today is due to unconstitutional governmental interference in attempting to force equality.

[JerryNumbers]

A lot of the problem is concerned with "privilege." I presume you are all white, so you are concerned about maintained the white privileges. The longer you keep "them" under, the more bitter the struggle. My exams 54 yours ago required an essay on "Racial segregation in South Africa & USA." I don't remember what I wrote, but I was against it. When will the Red Indians get integration?

The other side of "integration by force" is "segregation by force."

No, I can't speak for the situation over there - I live in Southall where white English is a small minority. Our Pastor is Pakistani, married to a converted Sikh. If a person looks English, she's probably Polish ....

My children went to state schools, with a majority of Indian pupils. Three got degrees & they all secured good jobs. I play tennis with Punjabi Sikh, Sri Lankan Hindu, Sudanese Muslim, French Catholic, etc, etc.

Why is segregation still an issue?

My mother was Doris Day, & one of her (namesake's) greatest hits includes the line: "the beautiful Indian country that I love." (Black Hills of Dakota - "Calamity Jane.")

You speaking out saying you presume what we are thinking, & that is the type of thinking & talking that causes troubles & makes segregation a larger issue than it should be. Plus you need to be much more careful about presuming what I placed in bold letters, plus placed a line though in your post right above this. I don't believe anyone said nothing to lead you to presume such a thing, I surely know I didn't.

What I did say is that the blacks in our community did not want to give up their schools. That is a far cry from what you presume.

PS. I do not have the least idea what black people thought in other communities in our state & or across our nation about being forced to close their schools & attend school with the white people. I just know about the black people that protested in our community, their school board, their school officials, & those that had children attending their schools they got together in our community letting everyone know they did not want to consolidate.

When that happen there was several meetings held that took place between the black school officials, & the white school officials, & it was settled peaceful, & they consolidated.

I might add, where there is a mixture of white people, & black people, more times that not, you will have a few on each side that are raciest, & those few will generally cause trouble for everyone. And because of those few, we have troubles in this issue.

[no name joe]

First of all, slavery is not a sin. Secondly, the discriminatory laws came into place as a result of governmental attempts to force "equality". Thirdly, more than enough time has passed for those willing to put the past behind them and rise up. Fourth, the real reason there are so many problems in this area today is due to unconstitutional governmental interference in attempting to force equality.

How can you say the institution of slavery in the US was not a national sin? Do you know what this involved? One man owned another. People sold women and children and broke families apart becuse they had a right to sell their slaves. People were given a substandard status under the law and treated like dogs. People were stripped naked for people to poke and prod to "examine" the merchandice they were purchasing. People had a legal right to kill or severly beat a slave for not complying?

Not a sin???? Come on. This institution was evil from the beginning. The Southern land owners built their wealth on the backs of poor slaves. This was an extreme sin in the history of our nation. OUr nation paid a huge price in blood through the Civil War for this sin. THe Civil War, I believe was part of God's judgment on this nation.

Look at the Old Testament. The Israelites were slaves to Egypt. God demanded that Egypt let his people go. They were treated harshly as well. God poured out his wrath on Egypt for not letting them go.

Post Civil War, States continues in sin by instituting laws to oppress the black people. They instituted rigorous laws to prevent them from voting. They segregated society through government action. The states made black people to feel inferior, remain uneducated and ignorant. When this is done generation after generation, it creates an cycle of generational poverty, and we still see lingering effects of it today.

That does not give individuals excuses, but it is a reality of our society. Many black people have risen out of generational poverty, but the truth is, most will continue to be stuck in the cycle. This is directly linked to the way our state governemnts oppressed people for generations (and the federal governemtn acquiesced until the Civil War).

Let me say it another way. Our States and Nation sinned by permitting and encouraging the oppression and mistreatment of black people. It was legal to go off to Africa, round up people who were defensless against superior technology, pack them so tightly into boats and ships that many died on the journey to America (the supposed land of the free) and then sold them to be owned, unconitionally by another man. I am not talking of indentured servants who agreed to serve another for a period of time to repay a debt. John Newton, a slave trader, realize the depth of the sin he was involved in and repente, and wrote Amazing Grace. How is this not a sin? Your statement is astonishing to me.

To put it in terms you understand, if you believe slavery was not a national sin, what do you think about abortion? WIth abortion, you have an innocent life (just like a slave), and it is legal to take the life of that individual becuase it is an inconvenience (if a slave was inconvenient, you sold him, or if he disobeyed, you inflicted harm or death). So, would you say abortion is not a national sin? Just like slavery, abortion is not mentioned in the Bible. So, I guess if a State or Nation permits it, then it is not a national sin? That is absurd reasoning and logic. Edited November 18, 2011 by kindofblue1977

[HappyChristian]

kob - John can defend himself, but I just wanted to insert here: he did not say that slavery was not a national sin. He said slavery itself is not a sin. There is voluntary slavery that is actually in the Bible....I believe that is the idea he was referring to.

[no name joe]

kob - John can defend himself, but I just wanted to insert here: he did not say that slavery was not a national sin. He said slavery itself is not a sin. There is voluntary slavery that is actually in the Bible....I believe that is the idea he was referring to.

Sorry if I misunderstood. :)

[Wilchbla]

A lot of the problem is concerned with "privilege." I presume you are all white, so you are concerned about maintained the white privileges. The longer you keep "them" under, the more bitter the struggle. My exams 54 yours ago required an essay on "Racial segregation in South Africa & USA." I don't remember what I wrote, but I was against it. When will the Red Indians get integration?

The other side of "integration by force" is "segregation by force."

No, I can't speak for the situation over there - I live in Southall where white English is a small minority. Our Pastor is Pakistani, married to a converted Sikh. If a person looks English, she's probably Polish ....

My children went to state schools, with a majority of Indian pupils. Three got degrees & they all secured good jobs. I play tennis with Punjabi Sikh, Sri Lankan Hindu, Sudanese Muslim, French Catholic, etc, etc.

Why is segregation still an issue?

My mother was Doris Day, & one of her (namesake's) greatest hits includes the line: "the beautiful Indian country that I love." (Black Hills of Dakota - "Calamity Jane.")

Try living in Louisiana, South Carolina or any of the inner cities here in America and you'll change your tune but quick. Trust me.