Repentance - Biblical Viewpoint

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Apparently we are not reading the same Bible as they, John

[KJV1611]

I think it's sad that you don't understand that ALL sin was paid for at the cross. Past, present, future. Anyone who believes is TOTALLY forgiven. Every sin they ever committed in the past, present, and future is paid for by the blood of the lamb. Their sins are as far as the east is from the west, buried in the depths of the sea, behind God's back never to be seen again. God doesn't see a saved sinner who is a drunk. He just sees a saved sinner. You are the one focused so much on "how others" are living, yet you yourself still live in sin, and if you deny it, then 1 John says the truth is not in you. You seem to think your sin is okay because in YOUR eyes it is smaller than a drunkards sin. I feel as if I am talking to a pharisee who is very religious on the outside, but is twice dead on the inside.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I think it's sad that you don't understand that ALL sin was paid for at the cross. Past, present, future. Anyone who believes is TOTALLY forgiven. Every sin they ever committed in the past, present, and future is paid for by the blood of the lamb. Their sins are as far as the east is from the west, buried in the depths of the sea, behind God's back never to be seen again. God doesn't see a saved sinner who is a drunk. He just sees a saved sinner. You are the one focused so much on "how others" are living, yet you yourself still live in sin, and if you deny it, then 1 John says the truth is not in you. You seem to think your sin is okay because in YOUR eyes it is smaller than a drunkards sin. I feel as if I am talking to a pharisee who is very religious on the outside, but is twice dead on the inside.

I think it is sad that you teach one that he or she doesn't have to turn from sin to come to Christ. It is sad that you totally dismiss the Word of God that says no drunkard will inherit heaven.

It's sad that you teach people that they can eat at the Lord's table and at the table of devils.

[Brother Rick]

You just don't get it. A drunkard cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Nothing that defiles will enter God's city.

So saved people never become drunkards later in life - ever?

By the way, liars don't go to Heaven either according to Revelation. Are you suggesting that saved people never lie? Or is an occasional lie "okay?" Are we going to begin defining how many lies it takes to be a liar? Edited November 16, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[John81]

"Believe and receive", just what the prosperity preachers proclaim. The idea that one can "believe" yet have no change of heart and life but is saved is totally unbiblical. This is why Peter warned us to examine our salvation to make sure we are saved. The evidence such an examination is looking for? A changed heart for the things of God and a life lived which reflects this. If such an examination doesn't yield such evidence we know we are yet lost and need to be born again.

If we are not born again, which means born into a new life (a life in Christ and for Christ), then we are lost.

[KJV1611]

So saved people never become drunkards later in life - ever?

By the way, liars don't go to Heaven either according to Revelation. Are you suggesting that saved people never lie? Or is an occasional lie "okay?" Are we going to begin defining how many lies it takes to be a liar?

Rick,

You see, what he really means, is that all sinners who live worse than himself are not really saved.

Like you said, ALL liars shall have their part in the lake of fire. All Christians sin after salvation. StandingFirm is just a hypocritical pharisee thinking he is better than those around him.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

How much sin is too much after salvation? One sin, two sins, 100 sins? What type of sins? Obviously to STANDINGFIRM, his sins are okay, but a drunkards are not. He tries to "play God" and tell us which people are going to heaven and which ones are not by whether or not they are living in sin.

What if King David had died after committing adultery and having Uriah murdered in battle, but before God sent a prophet to let David know God was going to punish him? Well, in StandingFirm's viewpoint, he was never saved and went to hell. After all, he tells us that even though his brother was a believer, that because he died a drunkard he went to hell, so I guess if King David had died a murdering adulterer he would have went to hell too according to his logic.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

KJV, your post is inflammatory and you are bearing false witness.

I am not a hypocritical Pharisee. I have no desire to sin whatsoever. Do I sin? No doubt. I, like the Apostle Paul, admit that the evil that I would not (I have no desire to do) I find myself doing.

You teach a message contrary to the Word of God. You deliver a message that is very dangerous and gives people a false sense of security. They don't have to give up their sins? Just what is bringing them to Christ? If one is not made to know he has sinned against God, and is told the message you teach, that one may make a profession but is just as lost before as he was before the message was given.

[Brother Rick]

I think we're forgetting something vital here: a lost person can't quit his sins. At the risk of sounding like my Calvinist friends, a lost man is in darkness and is depraved, and yet he's supposed to dedicate his life to the Lord? He's supposed to quit sins that have gripped him his entire life? How is he supposed to do that? With his old nature? He doesn't have a new nature and he doesn't have the power of the Holy Spirit inside of him until after he's saved. Therefore there is a distinct difference between repentance before salvation and after. If you're saying that repentance before salvation involves ditching certain sins - then you're preaching works salvation. The only thing a lost person can repent of before he's saved is who he is. He understands he's a hopeless sinner and needs Jesus Christ to save him. The grave clothes came off of Lazarus after he became alive again, not before.

John is right when he says that a life after salvation without any fruit at all means that the person is probably lost. I would agree with that. He can and should give up sins and choose to be a disciple of Christ afterwards. A Christian should repent and give up sins after he is saved. If there is no change, he probably never got saved to begin with.

I do not agree with the idea that if a Christian is a liar, drunkard, or fearful after they will not go to Heaven. Before anyone flips out please read this entire paragraph and allow me to explain myself. Saying a drunkard (or a liar) can't go to Heaven is works salvation. A Christian is capable of committing any sin that a lost man can because he still has the filthy, dirty, sin nature within him. He may be miserable doing it, but God will not force him to quit. God will chastise or even kill an unrepentant Christian, but He will not send him to hell. There are many cases where a Christian shows fruit for a while, and then spends the rest of his life serving the world and his flesh (like Demas). The man was saved the whole time, but he lost eternal rewards in Heaven. In my book on Eternal Security there is a chapter about 10 things a Christian really can lose - but none of those things are his soul.

A Christian liar, drunkard, or scardy-pants is not a liar, drunkard, or scardy-pants to God. We have an identity "in Christ" to where while we may be those things in our bodies and flesh, but spiritually to God we are perfect. At death, our souls and spirits go to God and our bodies rot and pay the penalty of sin up until the resurrection at which time they are saved from the penalty of sin (death) and are changed.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[2Tim215]

KJV, your post is inflammatory and you are bearing false witness.

I am not a hypocritical Pharisee. I have no desire to sin whatsoever. Do I sin? No doubt. I, like the Apostle Paul, admit that the evil that I would not (I have no desire to do) I find myself doing.

You teach a message contrary to the Word of God. You deliver a message that is very dangerous and gives people a false sense of security. They don't have to give up their sins? Just what is bringing them to Christ? If one is not made to know he has sinned against God, and is told the message you teach, that one may make a profession but is just as lost before as he was before the message was given.

SFIC, I do not believe that any one here is of the opinion that a saved believer need not try every second of every day to overcome through Christ sin in there lives, and to place God first in all they do and say. This thread is starting to become very aggressive and I apologize for any inflammatory remarks that I have made but have to point this out to you:

You ask in the above quote "They don't have to give up their sins? Just what is bringing them to Christ?" Well, here is your answer:

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

I really do not know how it can be more clearer than that? Or This:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

[Standing Firm In Christ]

There is no such thing as a Christians liar, nor is there any such thing as a christian drunkard.

Where do you guys come up with such nonsense? Certainly not from the Word of God.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The message you are presenting is straight out of the pit of hell. It tells people all you have to do is believe and you're saved.

Here's the message I am hearing from you. The drunkard can remain a drunkard. The serial killer can continue killing. The adulterer can continue in adultery. The thief can continue stealing.

After all, they're saved. So they are assured of eternal life. They've been sealed unto the day of redemption of the purchased price.

And yet, the Word of God teaches

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

When were they washed? When they believed, not 20, 30, 40 years down the road.

Thieves will not make it in whether they believe in Christ or not.
Drunkards will not make it in whether they believe in Christ or not.
Adulterers will not make it in whether they believe in Christ or not.
Serial killers will not make it in whether they believe in Christ or not.

You guys teach another gospel, one that is leaving people in darkness and not light.

[LindaR]

When a person is drawn to salvation, that person will repent...seeing himself/herself as a sinner doomed to hell. That sinner, convicted by the Holy Spirit of God, will turn from that life devoted to sin toward a life devoted to God through faith in Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection as payment...for what? SIN!!! NOT UNBELIEF!!! Jesus died for S-I-N...not for unbelief!

Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Salvation is NOT a license to sin!!!!!!! Repentance it is NOT changing your mind from unbelief to belief. I repeat, Jesus Christ died for your SIN not your UNBELIEF. One doesn't lose their salvation if they sin (and we all do because our sin nature is not eradicated at salvation), but that is NOT our lifestyle.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Our desires have changed...we desire to please God through godly living. We are called to be lights in this dark sinful world. How can we (born again Christians) be lights if we are continually living in the darkness and looking just like the world?

God gives repentance.

Edited November 16, 2011 by LindaR

[KJV1611]

The message you are presenting is straight out of the pit of hell. It tells people all you have to do is believe and you're saved.

Here's the message I am hearing from you. The drunkard can remain a drunkard. The serial killer can continue killing. The adulterer can continue in adultery. The thief can continue stealing.

After all, they're saved. So they are assured of eternal life. They've been sealed unto the day of redemption of the purchased price.

And yet, the Word of God teaches

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

When were they washed? When they believed, not 20, 30, 40 years down the road.

Thieves will not make it in whether they believe in Christ or not.
Drunkards will not make it in whether they believe in Christ or not.
Adulterers will not make it in whether they believe in Christ or not.
Serial killers will not make it in whether they believe in Christ or not.

You guys teach another gospel, one that is leaving people in darkness and not light.

You are LOST.

I do not say that in a derogatory sense, or in a mean manner. I say it honestly and earnestly. You ARE LOST.

You said "it tells people all you have to do is believe and you're saved". That's right, all you have to do is BELIEVE. It is FAITH without WORKS. Anything OTHER than BELIEVING would be works and not faith.

Verse after verse says believe, believe, believe, believe and faith, faith, faith. Yet you come here and say it's not just faith or believing. It's something else? Well anything else would be WORKS.

You said "Adulterers will not make it in whether they believe in Christ or not" David was an adulterer yet he made it in.

I'll tell you who will NOT make it into heaven. Anyone that believes that salvation is anything other than FAITH IN CHRIST. You believe it's part works and part faith and you will split hell wide open when you die. To say that anything other than faith in Christ is necessary is to downplay the blood of Christ which was shed for all those who BELIEVE. Not for those who live a good life, do good works, or anything else. But for those that BELIEVE.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

ROFL.

You talk out of both sides of your mouth, KJV. First you say one only have to believe and that one is saved. I have stated that I believe, so that means I am saved.

Then you turn around and tell me I am lost? Why? Because you believe there to be sin in me?

James has a perfect description for people like you... doubleminded and unstable.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I am not sure what Bible you read, but my Bible shows me that David repented of his sin.

As a matter of fact, Paul teaches that one is only an adulteress as long as her first husband lives. So, after Uzziah was killed in battle, David was no longer living in adultery even though he had committed adultery.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Standing Firm In Christ