Suicide and salvation?

[Brother Rick]

I love how your position has been blown up, dismantled, and destroyed dozens of times and yet you keep sticking to it!

You should change your name to "Stubbornly Standing in My Unbiblical Opinion!"

[LindaR]

Suicide should be the FARTHEST thought from the mind of a born again believer.

Suicide is self-murder and the ultimate act of self-centeredness and rebellion against God.

Suicide is SIN.

Suicide does not occur in a vacuum.

Thoughts of suicide begin when a person decides that his/her life isn't worth living, for whatever reason. In other words, it is YOU, not God, who is making the decision about when your life should end.

Psalms 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Personally, I have serious doubts about the salvation of "professing" Christians who commit suicide. After a person is dead, there are no "second chances". Also, I do not believe that a person who "professes" faith in Christ will continue "living in the mire of sin". Suicide is not "a way of escape" from trials and tribulations....and there really is no justification for it when we are truly born again of the Spirit of God. As Betsie ten Boom said to her sister Corrie in that concentration camp:

"There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still."...Betsie ten Boom

Edited December 22, 2011 by LindaR

[JerryNumbers]

We could talk about polar bears. I like them, they're very cozy looking and I've heard they drink coca-cola straight from the glass bottle from time to time. I've also heard that they can be scary when they get angry.

Anyone want to talk about polar bears?

When a polar bear is hungry, that's when they're truly scary.

A little kola bear, now they really look cuddly. Or a panda bear! they make you think of a really cute teddy bear.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I love how your position has been blown up, dismantled, and destroyed dozens of times and yet you keep sticking to it!

You should change your name to "Stubbornly Standing in My Unbiblical Opinion!"

You have yet to prove my belief is unbliblical.

Where is a verse in the Bible where one of the Apostles tells the reader to give in to temptation? Where is that verse that says suicide is not sin? Where is that verse that says suicides will enter God's Kingdom?

Provide those verses, and I will be happy to admit that I am wrong. Until then, I will continue to teach what the Holy Spirit has taught me.

By the way... what did Paul say were the end results of the works of the flesh?
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Suicide falls under the definition of murders and also under the subcategory "and such like." And Paul said they which do such WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

So where is your proof that they will? Does the Bible contradict itself? or do your beliefs contradict the Bible?

[JerryNumbers]

I might add Linda, there's many people that cause me to doubt their salvation with the life they live, & partaking of so many ungodly things.

And I feel sure nearly all of us have done things in our lives that's caused fellow Christians do doubt our salvation.

Thankfully we are not in a race for performance based salvation, of course all of us have probably grew up in homes & school that are totally based on performance.

We must remember, our salvation is not based on our righteousness, but on the Saviors righteousness, plus God's mercy & grace.

[Brother Rick]

Round and round we go. See post #172, #175, and #202.

You have yet to prove my belief is unbliblical.

Where is a verse in the Bible where one of the Apostles tells the reader to give in to temptation? Where is that verse that says suicide is not sin? Where is that verse that says suicides will enter God's Kingdom?

Provide those verses, and I will be happy to admit that I am wrong. Until then, I will continue to teach what the Holy Spirit has taught me.

By the way... what did Paul say were the end results of the works of the flesh?
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Suicide falls under the definition of murders and also under the subcategory "and such like." And Paul said they which do such WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

So where is your proof that they will? Does the Bible contradict itself? or do your beliefs contradict the Bible?

Edited December 22, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[no name joe]

The Bible says there is only one unforgivable sin, and that is rejection of the Holy Spirit. All other sins are covered by the blood of Christ. To accept teh sacrifice of Christ, we must hear and follow the call of the Holy Spirit to accept Christ. If we reject that call when it comes, then that is the ONLY sin that is unforgivable.

If suicide cannot be forgiven, then neither can lying, cheating, stealing, etc.

[Brother Rick]

The Bible says there is only one unforgivable sin, and that is rejection of the Holy Spirit. All other sins are covered by the blood of Christ. To accept teh sacrifice of Christ, we must hear and follow the call of the Holy Spirit to accept Christ. If we reject that call when it comes, then that is the ONLY sin that is unforgivable.

If suicide cannot be forgiven, then neither can lying, cheating, stealing, etc.

Amen.

In Standing Firm in His Own Unbiblical Opinion's twisted theology, any sin will damn a person to Hell and no sin is forgivable. How can I accuse him of teaching that? Because any Christian who dies in a backslidden and unrepentant state is automatically assumed to have been lost the whole time in his world.

See post #202 for further details on how he arrives here.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The Bible says there is only one unforgivable sin, and that is rejection of the Holy Spirit. All other sins are covered by the blood of Christ. To accept teh sacrifice of Christ, we must hear and follow the call of the Holy Spirit to accept Christ. If we reject that call when it comes, then that is the ONLY sin that is unforgivable.

If suicide cannot be forgiven, then neither can lying, cheating, stealing, etc.

Suicide is rejection of the leading of the Holy Spirit. Suicide proves one is following another shepherd and not Jesus Christ. Suicide denies Christ.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Rick,

I'll thank you to stop bearing false witness against me. I also ask that if you are going to refer to me in a post, use it as it is, Standing Firm In Christ, not your mockery of my character.

My beliefs are based on the Word of God. I have posted Scripture that clearly supports my beliefs concerning suicide.

As yet, you have not.

[LindaR]

I might add Linda, there's many people that cause me to doubt their salvation with the life they live, & partaking of so many ungodly things.

And I feel sure nearly all of us have done things in our lives that's caused fellow Christians do doubt our salvation.

Thankfully we are not in a race for performance based salvation, of course all of us have probably grew up in homes & school that are totally based on performance.

We must remember, our salvation is not based on our righteousness, but on the Saviors righteousness, plus God's mercy & grace.

I was married to a man who "professed" Christ and CONTINUED to live in sin... his lifestyle was ungodly after salvation. I was told that since he made that profession he was saved and it didn't matter how he lived afterwards and he would go to heaven when he died. This lie is in contrary to God's Word (Romans 6:1-2 and elsewhere).

Nobody is ever going to be sinlessly perfect this side of heaven, but salvation does make a difference. How you walk in your Christian life should reflect Christ...but we all fall short and miss the mark. A sinful lifestyle should not be the "fruit" of the Christian's life. A sinful lifestyle runs contrary to being a "new creature in Christ Jesus".

I realize that our salvation isn't based on our righteousness, but on the blood of Jesus Christ and His righteousness is imputed to us.

My question to everyone is this: Does it matter how we live AFTER salvation? IMHO, suicide is the "cowardly" way out of trials and tribulations and the Christian has no justification to take his/her own life. That's for God to decide.

[John81]

Suicide is rejection of the leading of the Holy Spirit. Suicide proves one is following another shepherd and not Jesus Christ. Suicide denies Christ.

All sin is a rejection of the leading of the Holy Spirit, not just suicide. Each time you or I sin, we have rejected the leading of the Holy Spirit yet that doesn't mean we are not saved.

Suicide, like any other sin a believer may commit, only proves one has given in to a paticular sin at that moment, not that they are denying Christ.

[John81]

My question to everyone is this: Does it matter how we live AFTER salvation? IMHO, suicide is the "cowardly" way out of trials and tribulations and the Christian has no justification to take his/her own life. That's for God to decide.

Yes, it matters how we live after salvation. Scripture is clear we are to pursue holiness. We should grow in Christlikeness. At the same time, Scripture is equally clear that so long as we are on this earth believers will commit sin.

I agree that most suicides are cowardly and simply someone trying to run from something. Most suicides are commited by lost people. Suicide, like many other sins, should be very rare among Christians, and yes I agree suicide is a sin because it is the murder of oneself and also we are told that we have been bought with a price and do not belong to ourselves.

For the most part, I think if a Christian is tempted to commit suicide and they actually pause and think about it they will hear from the Holy Ghost and not give in to that temptation to sin. However, there are cases where one commits a sin very quickly upon the temptation coming upon them, whether it be suicide, murder, lying, or whatever.

No doubt suicide should be very rare among Christians, as should sins like murder, adultery, lying, etc. Yet just because a person commits one of these sins, or dies while commiting one of these sins, doesn't mean they were never born again in Christ.

[Brother Rick]

Rick,

I'll thank you to stop bearing false witness against me. I also ask that if you are going to refer to me in a post, use it as it is, Standing Firm In Christ, not your mockery of my character.

My beliefs are based on the Word of God. I have posted Scripture that clearly supports my beliefs concerning suicide.

As yet, you have not.

You've posted nothing that proves that every person who committed suicide went to Hell.

Yes, I made fun of you a little. I didn't lie though. You have no evidence for your position.

As far as making fun of you, here are the seven reasons why you are Stubborn in Your Own Unbiblical Opinion:

1. You believe in the Calvinist doctrine of Preservance of the Saints whether you know it or not. You're teaching that every person who dies in a backslidden state was never saved to begin with, something the Bible never teaches at all. Why again are you not preaching that Matthew 24:13 is part of the plan of salvation?

2. I've shown examples of backslidden saints who died, or were close to dying. Your answer is that none of them were saved and they all went to Hell. You have no evidence for this. I have presented evidence that they were saved. You ignore it and ramble on about other things.

3. You claim no Christian can commit suicide. You have no evidence for this. I have shown that Christians can commit fornication, adultery, murder, and any other sin imaginable because they have the same old nature that a lost man has.

4. You have dismissed the ten consequences for rebellion that a Christian suffers who refuses to get right. Perhaps it hasn't dawned on you that those ten consequences are there for a reason - sometimes Christians with their free will choose to not ever get right.

5. You have ignored the fact that the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ saves us from all sin. You think He can't save someone from the sin of suicide.

6. Your stand is completely inconsistent. You send all drunks to Hell, but ignore the liars in the same verse in Revelation. Self-murders go to Hell, but people who murder other people do not necessarily go. Adulterers are okay (like David), but the fornicator that God was getting ready to kill in I Cor. 5 was never saved (and the Bible says his spirit WAS SAVED).

7. You have ignored the fact that suicide is not the worst sin a person can commit and it isn't always in direct rebellion to God. You are being ignorant of the facts about that particular sin and the real world around you. Many times Christians feel hopeless and kill themselves and it has nothing to do with rebellion to God. It's a terrible thing, but you in your heartlessness have automatically sent them all to Hell. This is why I don’t feel bad about not cutting you any slack on this. If I believed what you do in Christian discernment I would keep my mouth shut so as to not rub salt in the wounds of others. I sincerely hope that no one who has family member who have committed suicide run into you and your 'encouraging' and 'uplifting' dogma.

[Brother Rick]

I realize that our salvation isn't based on our righteousness, but on the blood of Jesus Christ and His righteousness is imputed to us.

My question to everyone is this: Does it matter how we live AFTER salvation? IMHO, suicide is the "cowardly" way out of trials and tribulations and the Christian has no justification to take his/her own life. That's for God to decide.

I appreciate that you have been reasonable and rational in this discussion, sister. Absolutely our actions after salvation matter, and if someone lived wickedly before and after salvation with no evidence of fruit at any time in their lives I would assume they probably never got saved.

Suicide is a sin, and it is cowardice. But so are a lot of sins we do, thank God for His grace that saves and forgives us of all sin!