Is this a new attitude or..?

[JerryNumbers]

Much of it has to do with putting self above God. This is an especial problem in America where there is so much taught, often wrongly, about independence, liberty, be your own man, nobody can tell me what to do, and especially among some churched folks, I'm under grace...with the attitude being they can do as they please.

I recently encountered a Christian who seemed pretty conservative, fundamentalist leaning, as we talked. Then suddenly he brought up music and said something to the effect that fundamentalists are losing the younger generation and holding back those who could be saved because they refuse to accept hip-hop and rap Christian music! He was very energized about this, more so than any of the topics we had touched previously, and then he said Christians that are unwilling to adopt the hip-hop style, or gansta rap style, or skater style (and a few others) are working against God and condemning millions of young people to hell. Then he raises his shirtsleave and shows me a sword tattoo he got "to remind him of the power of God's Word" and to show those in these other groups how cool he can be even though he's a Christian. Our conversation didn't go too well after this though I tried to calmly raise some points because he was hyper-emotional about all this. He finally said that maybe someday I'd see the light and grow more in the Lord (not that time always matters, but I've been in the Lord for 30 years, he says he's been a Christian less than 5 years) and he left.

There are many professing Christian women who dress anywhere from immodestly to very immodestly and they proclaim they can dress however they want, nobody can tell them different and if anyone has a problem with it then it's the other persons problem.

I hear similar with regards to boozing, dirty movies, etc.

It "costs" a lot to truly put Christ first and most are unwilling to do this.

A thought.

If your standing firmly on Christ Word, while losing the children, them stop standing firmly on Christ word in order to gain the children, have you really made any gain?

[John81]

A thought.

If your standing firmly on Christ Word, while losing the children, them stop standing firmly on Christ word in order to gain the children, have you really made any gain?

Absolutely not! Yet the world says otherwise and there are many professing Christians who agree. Most professing Christians are far more interested in the things of this world than in the things of Christ.

[JerryNumbers]

Absolutely not! Yet the world says otherwise and there are many professing Christians who agree. Most professing Christians are far more interested in the things of this world than in the things of Christ.

If you catch both adults & children by those new fangled ways, in order to keep them you will have to come up with even more new fangled ways.

The only thing that will catch both adults & children & keep them is Christ, & its Christ all of us should have in common with one another, our unity needs to be based on Christ, not on new fangled ideas such as the Church for cowboys, Church for motorcyclist, Church for the highly educated, Church of poor people.

Of course those who don't have Christ as Savior would not be comfortable in a church where there's lots of people that has Christ as Savior.

I recall after out local cowboy church was built they interviews one fellow & he stated, "I had never found a church that I felt comfortable in, here at the cowboy church I feel very comfortable." This man has been married & divorced about 6 or 7 times, plays guitar in a country western band, & enjoys drinking & dancing. I can understand him not being comfortable in our church, for the things he enjoys I preach against. And our church members seems to be against them as well.

So I understand the reason for many of today's churches, they're about numbers & money, and not about the Glue that unifies a church that is 'the the pillar & ground of the truth.'

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Yes, I can understand why many that attends church service would never feel comfortable in such a church spoken of in 1 Timothy 3:15 that is "the pillar & ground of the truth."

[John81]

No doubt there are many professing Christians who are yet lost. They want the "feel good" of a church to their liking, but they don't want the convicting of the Spirit, they don't want to hear a pastor preach the Word which leads to repentance and actual salvation. They want that comfortable religion which feeds the flesh, soothes their conscience, and yet gives them license to live in the world and feed their flesh.

A man came to our church some time back and afterward talked with our pastor. He told our pastor that he had never heard such preaching even though he had gone to church his whole life. Our pastors sermon, through the Holy Ghost, brought conviction upon this man.

How sad that some can spend their lives attending church yet never hear the truth of the Word preached.

[trell]

May I interject?
Having been what was called a "Jesus freak" in the 1970's, I was a product of the times (liberal home life, anti-war movement, Woodstock siblings, drugs, sex, rock and roll, etc.) which put me at odds with almost everyone. Yet, I answered the call of God. Anyone can have reasons and excuses to not do what God would have them to do. But I remember the verse which has helped me tremendously:

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

I did not come to God, or stay with God, because of what God would have me not do. The goodness of God led me to repentance, and has led many others to Him also. I find when I am less concerned with people and what I think their sin is (sin is what God says sin is, not what man says it is), but instead teaching them what they already have in Christ and what they now can do, rather than what they can not according to me (Col 2:20-22), that they grow much faster and deep rooted as a norm rather than the exception.

It works. It works because "the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance".

[heartstrings]

It's just the human nature in all of us. Sometimes it's the result of 'spiritual abuse'. Jesus had more rebukes for the spiritual leaders of the day than he did for the sinners and "pew warmers". BTW, do sarcastic comments like calling people "pew warmers" help anything? Isn't that scorning? What does the Bible say about scorning and harsh words? It's the phariseeical attitude which turns people off. We are now attending a church where the women wear pants, men wear shorts, the kids attend public school, and some use other versions while, even at home, my wife and daughter are still wearing decent dresses, my son and I wear long pants and we still use our KJB's. I don't recall Jesus scorning the woman at the well even for her multiple husbands and she left him with living water springing out of her soul. If people can see something different in me,and I show true Christlike love and compassion, then all of those external things I do may convict them later. People learn better by example anyway. Anyone can "dress right and spit white", but it is the true light that makes the difference.

[JerryNumbers]

I hate those words, 'pew warmers.'

Many times when it is used it comes from a person that is looking down their nose at those they consider pew warmers.

And does the words 'pew warmers' really edify anyone? I think not.

[blossom]

It's just the human nature in all of us. Sometimes it's the result of 'spiritual abuse'. Jesus had more rebukes for the spiritual leaders of the day than he did for the sinners and "pew warmers". BTW, do sarcastic comments like calling people "pew warmers" help anything? Isn't that scorning? What does the Bible say about scorning and harsh words? It's the phariseeical attitude which turns people off. We are now attending a church where the women wear pants, men wear shorts, the kids attend public school, and some use other versions while, even at home, my wife and daughter are still wearing decent dresses, my son and I wear long pants and we still use our KJB's. I don't recall Jesus scorning the woman at the well even for her multiple husbands and she left him with living water springing out of her soul. If people can see something different in me,and I show true Christlike love and compassion, then all of those external things I do may convict them later. People learn better by example anyway. Anyone can "dress right and spit white", but it is the true light that makes the difference.

I haven't read much of this thread but I would like to ask you if you don't mind, how do your kids cope with the differences? Do they question it and want to follow others? Do they resent the differences? I'm not passing judgement on you being there or anything like that I would just like to know how you handle the differences.

[blossom]

Wouldn't the reference to the Laodacean (my spelling is bad) Church be like what we term Pew warmers:- neither hot nor cold, there but not involved. Maybe it is an unfair term but group names like that just make it easier to reference a type or group of people. I wouldn't call anyone in our church that we are blessed but it does seem to describe some people. And no I am not looking down on anybody, Its a word to describe an attitude or action by people not an accussation. I don't know maybe it is just wrong making blanket statement. Sometimes I think we are getting so careful about we are saying it stops us from standing for anything.