Women & rape

JerryNumbers · July 24, 2011

Do you feel that the way some women dress, & or lack of dress, dressing in revealing clothes has an impact on being raped & murdered?

farouk · July 24, 2011

I voted 'no', because, although it might have an effect in some cases, basically I don't believe in 'blame the victim'. So I veer more to 'no' than to 'yes'.

If religious police hypothetically forced women to dress like 19th century nuns, it still would not change the human heart.

JerryNumbers · July 24, 2011

Yes, the world says that the immodest dressed woman shares no blame in having gotten raped. Truth is immodest dressed women do temp men, and some may not bear up to the temptation.

If the woman would obey God on this matter, and dress modest, it would cut down on the number of rape and murders.

John81 · July 25, 2011

Yes, and such was widely recognized and accepted as true until the radical feminists gained the power to cause this to not be considered.

Thanks to the radical feminists, the teaching went forth that women can dress and act as provocatively as they want and have no responsibility for what happens to them. That's not saying a woman who dresses and acts like that deserves to be attacked, it simply acknowledges the fact she has placed herself in a position to be a more likely target.

Is a man standing on a subway in New York with hundred dollar bills protruding from his shirt pocket asking to be robbed? No, probably not, but he is certainly putting himself in a much more likely position to be robbed than he would if he kept the money unseen.

In both cases, the attacker and robber are fully to blame for their actions and should be held accountable, but the actions that were done by the victims to make themselves a much more likely target should not be ignored.

How many women have suffered being raped, in part, due to radical feminist teachings which have led them to dress in what most men would consider a "look here, come and get it" outfit and then conduct themselves in the same manner.

There are many reasons why God commands modesty and they are for the benefit of all.

farouk · July 25, 2011

I agree about modesty and caution, yes.

Like, if the insurance company discovers that after theft at my house, I was in the habit of going out leaving the doors open, they would not pay up.

But, still, I don't agree with 'blame the victim', either. In the end it's a matter of the heart that needs changing by the Gospel.

John81 · July 25, 2011

I agree about modesty and caution, yes.

Like, if the insurance company discovers that after theft at my house, I was in the habit of going out leaving the doors open, they would not pay up.

But, still, I don't agree with 'blame the victim', either. In the end it's a matter of the heart that needs changing by the Gospel.

It's not "blaming the victim", it's acknowledging the fact we should all be responsible to a certain extent for our actions and behaviour.

Going to a party with a bunch of drunken guys wearing very little and getting drunk while there puts a woman in much more danger of being raped than she need be.

The same is true for the guy who leaves his car parked on the street with the windows down, doors unlocked and his high end laptop sitting on the front seat. That guy has put his laptop in a much greater position to be stolen than if he had the car windows up, the doors locked and the laptop completely out of view locked in the trunk.

The criminal is fully responsible for their actions, but those who put themselves at greater risk should not be told they have no responsibility at all in such matters.

farouk · July 25, 2011

You see, in Canada the courts have established the right of women to go topless, if they wish: I have some problems with this, certainly; and I don't want to get into this too much, but the onus is still on men to avoid doing anything dishonorable.

John81 · July 25, 2011

You see, in Canada the courts have established the right of women to go topless, if they wish: I have some problems with this, certainly; and I don't want to get into this too much, but the onus is still on men to avoid doing anything dishonorable.

No one should commit a crime but we live in a fallen world and we know what that means. There is also an onus upon each of us to take care for our own safety, to not make ourselves targets, to be cautious, to consider the possible consquences of our actions, etc.

farouk · July 25, 2011

No one should commit a crime but we live in a fallen world and we know what that means. There is also an onus upon each of us to take care for our own safety, to not make ourselves targets, to be cautious, to consider the possible consquences of our actions, etc.

I agree, yes. Caution and modesty are important.

I guess up here it's a slightly different legal (and climatic) framework, too. I think the idea behind the court judgment mentioned was for people not to interfere with sunbathers.

(In any case, there are so many long, cold winter months up here that people often want to take advantage of whatever sun there is.)

Anon · July 25, 2011

I put "I don't know" only because it was the closest thing to my ideas...I do think that the general immodesty of our society contributes to these perverts....but that includes porn and all involved with that. Most women dress immodestly, though, these days, so I don't think we can say that its completely that...otherwise all women would be raped and murdered.

I do think that the way parents let their little girls dress may contribute to the abductions...but then I have not researched it to find out what they are looking for, nor do I really want to research it.

So I guess my answer is really "Yes and No". Yes, the immorality of our culture contributes to this violence. Yes, I think, at times, a pretty woman dressed immodestly and in the wrong place at the wrong time can have something bad happen to her. But no, I do not think that its necessarily the fault of the woman for her dress because out of 100 immodestly dressed women in public, somehow, a criminal will choose one of them.

Our society is sick and sad.

Wilchbla · July 25, 2011

Most police will tell you that a way a woman dresses invites trouble. Exceptions only prove the rule.

farouk · July 25, 2011

I put "I don't know" only because it was the closest thing to my ideas...I do think that the general immodesty of our society contributes to these perverts....but that includes porn and all involved with that. Most women dress immodestly, though, these days, so I don't think we can say that its completely that...otherwise all women would be raped and murdered.

I do think that the way parents let their little girls dress may contribute to the abductions...but then I have not researched it to find out what they are looking for, nor do I really want to research it.

So I guess my answer is really "Yes and No". Yes, the immorality of our culture contributes to this violence. Yes, I think, at times, a pretty woman dressed immodestly and in the wrong place at the wrong time can have something bad happen to her. But no, I do not think that its necessarily the fault of the woman for her dress because out of 100 immodestly dressed women in public, somehow, a criminal will choose one of them.

Our society is sick and sad.

Kitagrl:

The excuse: 'the devil made me do it', isn't good enough.

Neither is the excuse: 'the woman made me do it'.

A bit like the Afghanistan government which said over 30 years ago: we invited the Soviets to invade us.

Annie · July 25, 2011

I agree with Kitagrl.

Maybe John already said this, but the woman is not guilty for the sin of rape; she does not "share blame" for that sin. The man alone is responsible for his sin. An immodestly dressed woman is guilty of disobeying the exhortation found in I Timothy 2 to dress in "modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety." Am I saying that there's absolutely no cause/effect going on at all between immodest dress and rape? Nope...but in cases where there might be some relation between the two, if anything the assault (a sin all by itself) would be more of a "consequence" of the immodest dressing (a sin all by itself), not an instance of "complicity" in the sin. And the man is still entirely responsible before God for the sin of rape. The woman answers to God only for the sin of dressing immodestly.

To assert that a woman is responsible for an assault is to say that it is impossible for a man to resist temptation...which is a false statement. My husband has seen many, many immodestly dressed women in his lifetime, but he has never raped anyone. He has remained blameless, and the immodestly dressed women are still guilty--of the sin of dressing immodestly.

Can you tell I'm sick of guys passing the buck, standing behind a woman like Adam did, refusing to take responsibility for their own lust? Real men don't whine and shift blame, but stand strong in the face of temptation, and treat women like Jesus treated them: with compassion and with an understanding of their spiritual need.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Annie

farouk · July 25, 2011

I agree with Kitagrl.

Maybe John already said this, but the woman is not guilty for the sin of rape; she does not "share blame" for that sin. The man alone is responsible for his sin. An immodestly dressed woman is guilty of disobeying the exhortation found in I Timothy 2 to dress in "modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety." Am I saying that there's absolutely no cause/effect going on at all between immodest dress and rape? Nope...but in cases where there might be some relation between the two, if anything the assault (a sin all by itself) would be more of a "consequence" of the immodest dressing (a sin all by itself), not an instance of "complicity" in the sin. And the man is still entirely responsible before God for the sin of rape. The woman answers to God only for the sin of dressing immodestly.

To assert that a woman is responsible for an assault is to say that it is impossible for a man to resist temptation...which is a false statement. My husband has seen many, many immodestly dressed women in his lifetime, but he has never raped anyone. He has remained blameless, and the immodestly dressed women are still guilty--of the sin of dressing immodestly.

Can you tell I'm sick of guys passing the buck, standing behind a woman like Adam did, refusing to take responsibility for their own lust? Real men don't whine and shift blame, but stand strong in the face of temptation, and treat women like Jesus treated them: with compassion and with an understanding of their spiritual need.