Lent

[John81]

For the past couple of days I've heard reports on the radio of the growing trend for Baptist, and other churches (they specifically mentioned Baptist), which don't have a history of observing Lent, who are now doing so.

They reported many Baptist churches, and others, are now turning their services into liturgical services for the season of Lent. Some even adopt aspects of or celebrate in some manner, Mardi Gras. There are also special parties, including those with a "King's cake", where apparently a baby Jesus is baked into the cake and whoever gets the piece of cake with baby Jesus inside is the one who will host next years party.

Great emphasis is placed upon the Catholic concept of "sacrifcing for Jesus", which can involve anything from giving up chocolate to self-torture. Somehow this is to earn favor or merit in the eyes of Jesus.

It was said that some churches, mostly those which broke from the RCC during the Reformation but still held onto many aspects of the RCC, have been carrying on such things for centuries. The trend for Baptist and other churches which have no history of participating in these things is on the rise and seen as a sign Christianity is returning to its "Catholic roots".

Does your church, whether Baptist or not, observe Lent or any of these other traditions?

Does your church teach there is or is not biblical grounds for observing Lent and the traditions that go with it?

[Covenanter]

No. Not in the 53 years I have been out of the CofE.

The previous Lent, they had a series of "Lenten Bible Studies." The Bishop gave one on 2 Peter, explaining how it was different in style from 1 Peter, & could not have been written by the same author.

Everybody disagreed with him in the discussion afterwards. That was one reason I left.

[no name joe]

Lent can be a very useful time. In the past 2 Baptist churches we have been in, we have observed Lent. Now in the Anglican church I am in, we of course observe it.

It is not about works. It is about a time of preparation for our hearts to celebrate the ressurection of Christ. It is a time to reflect upon where we are spiritually, and where we need to be. It is a special time of reflection and prayer to allow God to show us what we need to change in our lives. Jesus set aside a time of 40 days to fast and pray before he entered into his public ministry. It is a special time of reflection. The tradition of Lent follows that pattern. We are preparing our hearts for the celbration of Christ's rerssurection, and it is to be a time when we devot ourselves to a special time of devotion and prayer. It is a time to really examine our hearts and minds as we enter the Easter season.

Now, many people can take it lightly and observe Lent for teh wrong purposes. But if observed with a proper heart, God can really use the time to rejuvinate one's spiritual life and draw the person into a time of extraordinary spiritual growth.

For this season, I am setting aside a time of additional prayer, and am earnestly seeking what God wants to do in my life, and earnestly seeking how he wants me to serve Him. I am asking him to create in me a clean heart and renew a right spirit within me.

[HappyChristian]

No, our church does not observe Lent. The adaption of things like the king's cake is rather silly, imo, and not necessary. Teaching the principle of giving up things that are flesh-pleasing for the Lord is not wrong (since that is scriptural), as long as it's not taught that it is to earn merit with the Lord but rather an outgrowth of growing closer to the Lord.

Personally, I think using the term "Lent" brings it in too close alliance with the Catholic church. I know many Catholics who feel that giving up something for the 40 days automatically makes them more spiritual. Now, if it were done with the attitude koblue has, it would be profitable because he uses those days to seek God more fully.

We have had times where our pastor has emphasized setting aside more time for working on our relationship with the Lord (he always reminds us at holiday times that, with time off work, we have extra time to spend with the Lord and should do so), like the weeks before a special revival meeting (which we don't have very often). But, truthfully, we are consistently taught, throughout the year, to examine our hearts and make sure we are doing as God would have us.

[JerryNumbers]

If I remember correctly, last year several members of OB praised lent, took up for it. I suppose it will be the same thing year. The growing acceptance of such teachings are growing at a fast rate.

[Guest]

For the past couple of days I've heard reports on the radio of the growing trend for Baptist, and other churches (they specifically mentioned Baptist), which don't have a history of observing Lent, who are now doing so.

They reported many Baptist churches, and others, are now turning their services into liturgical services for the season of Lent. Some even adopt aspects of or celebrate in some manner, Mardi Gras. There are also special parties, including those with a "King's cake", where apparently a baby Jesus is baked into the cake and whoever gets the piece of cake with baby Jesus inside is the one who will host next years party.

Great emphasis is placed upon the Catholic concept of "sacrifcing for Jesus", which can involve anything from giving up chocolate to self-torture. Somehow this is to earn favor or merit in the eyes of Jesus.

It was said that some churches, mostly those which broke from the RCC during the Reformation but still held onto many aspects of the RCC, have been carrying on such things for centuries. The trend for Baptist and other churches which have no history of participating in these things is on the rise and seen as a sign Christianity is returning to its "Catholic roots".

Does your church, whether Baptist or not, observe Lent or any of these other traditions?

Does your church teach there is or is not biblical grounds for observing Lent and the traditions that go with it?

I think it was a growing trend last year too.

No we don't teach it, we don't preach it, we don't observe the traditions of the Roman Church.

[John81]

I think it was a growing trend last year too.

No we don't teach it, we don't preach it, we don't observe the traditions of the Roman Church.

There was more about this on the radio this morning. The main theme of Lent is to spend 40 days in mourning and self-sacrifice for Christ in remembrance of what Christ went through.

They mentioned many wayward churches who have practiced Lent, a holdhover from the RCC, such as Lutheran, Episcopal, etc. Then a couple of Baptists came on telling why they are embracing Lent, turning their churches into liturgical churches during this time, calling everyone to be mournful for 40 days and to make sacrifices pleasing to God, such as giving up sugar, sex, meat, etc., which will help them identify with Christ. Another Baptist commented about how much a sacrifice it is for him to give up donuts for 40 days! He literally carried on about how difficult that sacrifice is when there are others around him at work eating donuts. Well, the temptation may be tough to deal with, but it's certainly not a tough sacrifice.

Scritpure gives us a specific way and time of remembrance, it's called the Lord's Supper, and is to be partaken of properly, biblically.

Some proclaim Lent is their time to draw closer to God, to give up something that interferes with them having more time for Bible study or prayer, etc. Scripture says every day we are to draw closer to God, to lay aside anything that interferes with our time with the Lord. Those I've observed in the past who say they hold to this do so much as the Catholics do. They appear pious for 40 days and just as soon as those 40 days are finished they go to the bar to celebrate, they sit and watch the recorded shows they "sacrificed" during the past 40 days, they spend a week in gluttony, and spend most of the rest of the year living like the world.

[Invicta]

Last year a member of a Baptist church who attends our Seniors lunch said that they were celebrating Lent, we asked "Why?" and he seemed perplexed but evenyually said, "I think our pastor thought it would be a good idea,"

Our church does not celebrate ant Roman fête, except Christmas and Easter. The Sunday School teachers do have a pancake party for the children on pancake day, Shrove Tuesday, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gas,) Last Tuesday, in fact.

[John81]

Later in the day the radio station had an Episcopal and a Methodist priest/pastor on to tell why they do Lent, and they had a Baptist pastor who does not do Lent at his church.

For the Episcopal priest it was mostly about tradition and something to get the people involved in. The Episcopal and Methodist both said it was a good time for people to be in remembrance of Jesus, to look at their lives and be willing to give up something for 40 days and to spend time in prayer or Bible reading they normally wouldn't.

The Baptist pastor pointed out that the Lord's Supper was established by Jesus as the means for His people to remember, as Christ said "do this in remembrance of Me". He pointed out that the things they said their congregations were giving up for 40 days was actually things they shoulnd't be involved with anyway and laying it aside for 40 days, as a matter of ritual, was pointless since they pick it back up after Lent. The Baptist pastor also pointed out that Christians are to give time each day to prayer and Bible reading, to which the Episcopal and Methodist said that it's unrealistic to expect their flock to spend much time in prayer and the Word throughout the year but if they can get them to do so for 40 days they have made an accomplishment.

When the issue of the roots of Lent being in the RCC came up, both the Episcopal and Methodist made long commentaries on how the RCC has many good things going for it, that there are "many" in the RCC who "love Jesus as much as they do" (that's a whole can of worms in itself!), and they talked about how the RCC is not like it was during the Reformation so separation from the RCC really isn't even an issue anymore.

Many worldly comments from the Episcopal and Methodist were presented in repsonse to the Baptist pastors Scripture citations.

[Alimantado]

If I remember correctly, last year several members of OB praised lent, took up for it. I suppose it will be the same thing year. The growing acceptance of such teachings are growing at a fast rate.

Yep, exactly the same discussion was had last year and the same people commented on both sides. But what's been fascinating on this board is how peoples' attitudes to the Roman Catholic tradition of Lent has been different to the Roman Catholic tradition of the feast of 'Saint' Valentine, the Roman Catholic martyr.

With Lent, many have argued that it is an unscriptural Roman Catholic tradition and as such there are no grounds whatsoever for observing it, even if, as in the case of Kind-of-Blue, someone appropriates it as an opportune time for personal reflection and prayer and doesn't recognise any of the Catholic elements of it.

But with St Valentine's Day, some of the same posters have either made comments to the effect of 'hey it doesn't matter because we don't think of the Catholic bits anymore' or else steered clear of actually saying whether they thought celebrating St Valentine's Day was right or wrong.

Check the threads:

www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/12991-happy-valentines-day/

www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/624-lent/

I've not quoted anyone because its not my intention to pick on anyone in particular; the posts are all there in the above threads. It's an interesting observation--I don't pretend to know why it is the case. For my part, I don't celebrate either of them.

[John81]

The important point is what Scritpure says about such matters. One would hope there has been some growth in following Christ more closely over the past year (for ALL of us) and that some who may have supported Lent last year would have allowed the Spirit to lead them out of this by now.

I don't do Valentines day and most professing Christians who do use that day as a special occasion to express love do so with no thought whatsoever at all to St. Valentine. It's probably not a stretch to say that most professing Christians have no clue who St. Valentine was and I know some that were not even aware Valentines day had anything to do with some "saint".

Back to the topic at hand, there is a big difference between some folks doing something for Valentines day, and churches sponsoring RCC created traditions that fly in the face of Scripture.

As a Baptist pastor so wisely pointed out, anything worth giving up for Lent is something that should not be a part of a Christians life to begin with. There is no justification for laying down something that hinders one growth in the Lord for a short time and then picking it back up again.

What benefit is there in the members of a church falling into pride as they try to outdo one another with what they are giving up? So many will say they gave up a TV show, so the next will say they are giving up two TV shows, until finally one declares they are far more holy for they unplugged their TV. Then after the 40 days are completed, all of them dive right back into the sinful programs, of which many record them during their 40 day "fast" and sit for hours catching up watching them once they have "paid their dues" for the past 40 days.

So much better to actually follow the Word of God!

[Alimantado]

I don't do Valentines day and most professing Christians who do use that day as a special occasion to express love do so with no thought whatsoever at all to St. Valentine. It's probably not a stretch to say that most professing Christians have no clue who St. Valentine was and I know some that were not even aware Valentines day had anything to do with some "saint".

Indeed. This is the 'hey it doesn't matter because we don't think of the Catholic bits anymore' argument I mentioned in my previous post.

Back to the topic at hand, there is a big difference between some folks doing something for Valentines day, and churches sponsoring RCC created traditions that fly in the face of Scripture.

It looks like they are both RCC created traditions that fly in the face of scripture. At least, in none of the threads I've linked to has anyone given any scriptural support for Valentine's Day or Lent.

As a Baptist pastor so wisely pointed out, anything worth giving up for Lent is something that should not be a part of a Christians life to begin with. There is no justification for laying down something that hinders one growth in the Lord for a short time and then picking it back up again. What benefit is there in the members of a church falling into pride as they try to outdo one another with what they are giving up? So many will say they gave up a TV show, so the next will say they are giving up two TV shows, until finally one declares they are far more holy for they unplugged their TV. Then after the 40 days are completed, all of them dive right back into the sinful programs, of which many record them during their 40 day "fast" and sit for hours catching up watching them once they have "paid their dues" for the past 40 days.

Granted. But my observation wasn't about this sort of observing of Lent as the sort that Kind-of-Blue has spoken of as well as some other guy in the older thread. They were saying that they have appropriated Lent as a good opportunity to spend more time in fasting and prayer and they don't recognise any of the Catholic bits of it. If someone did that, and kept the matter personal rather than making a show of it, I can't see the difference between them and those who say it's fine to do Valentine's Day so long as they don't acknowledge the Catholic bits.

And yet on here, people get black-and-white when it comes to Lent: 'Anything that has its origin in man-made Catholic tradition is wrong. Period.' And then when it comes to Valentine's Day they suddenly accept the various clauses and qualifications: 'Valentine's Day may have its origin in man-made Catholic tradition but it's ok because of X, Y and Z.'

[John81]

Indeed. This is the 'hey it doesn't matter because we don't think of the Catholic bits anymore' argument I mentioned in my previous post.


It looks like they are both RCC created traditions that fly in the face of scripture. At least, in none of the threads I've linked to has anyone given any scriptural support for Valentine's Day or Lent.


Granted. But my observation wasn't about this sort of observing of Lent as the sort that Kind-of-Blue has spoken of as well as some other guy in the older thread. They were saying that they have appropriated Lent as a good opportunity to spend more time in fasting and prayer and they don't recognise any of the Catholic bits of it. If someone did that, and kept the matter personal rather than making a show of it, I can't see the difference between them and those who say it's fine to do Valentine's Day so long as they don't acknowledge the Catholic bits.

And yet on here, people get black-and-white when it comes to Lent: 'Anything that has its origin in man-made Catholic tradition is wrong. Period.' And then when it comes to Valentine's Day they suddenly accept the various clauses and qualifications: 'Valentine's Day may have its origin in man-made Catholic tradition but it's ok because of X, Y and Z.'

Those who have said they "do Lent in a good way" are still participating in Lent, something their churches sponsor, and really no different than those who say they "do Halloween in a good way". What some say they are doing good during Lent is actually things we (Christians) are to be doing year round, not as a part of a Catholic tradition. In agreement with you that many of the matters they proclaim they are doing good are things that should be privately done between them and God, and not, as is being done, as a part of corporate church participation in a Catholic tradition which is much more about man than God.

Lent is generally known to be of Catholic origin while Valentines day isn't. That's not to say this is an excuse for celebrating St. Valentine. My comments regarding this were observational only, not endorsement.

Observing of Lent is observing of Lent whether one proclaims they have turned it into something good or not. Observing of Lent is seen as an endorsement of Lent which in turn is an endorsement of Catholic tradition and the traditions of men.

[chev1958]

And yet on here, people get black-and-white when it comes to Lent: 'Anything that has its origin in man-made Catholic tradition is wrong. Period.' And then when it comes to Valentine's Day they suddenly accept the various clauses and qualifications: 'Valentine's Day may have its origin in man-made Catholic tradition but it's ok because of X, Y and Z.'

The same could be said of the discussions concerning Christmas.

[Invicta]

Not Catholic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St-Valentine-Kneeling-In-Supplication.jpg (to Mary)


Like a number of RC saints, he probably didn't exist, and is just the pagan Eros, or Cupid, renamed and incorporated into RC paganism.