Thou shalt not steal (a question)

[JerryNumbers]

Yes.

This

And

this

And he describes the game in his post, I read what he stated about the game, your welcome to go back and read it again, and the this's I posted above they seem to agree with my conclusion.

Maybe, just maybe, hopefully, after I get this cataract taken care of in my left I want mess up so bad when reading. I sure did not see what I 1st though I saw. Plus, I read it 2 times even! Again sorry for my mistake.

[Nathaniel]

Just so I understand, you would say Basketball, Baseball, Chess and checkers are bad also?
In Basketball you can steal a ball and in Baseball you can steal a base.
In Chess you Kill the other players soldiers and the same with checkers?

[John81]

Just so I understand, you would say Basketball, Baseball, Chess and checkers are bad also?
In Basketball you can steal a ball and in Baseball you can steal a base.
In Chess you Kill the other players soldiers and the same with checkers?

Realistic or life-like games are where true aspects of life are presented are greatly different from a general game.

In basketball and baseball for example, players are not actually stealing anything. While it's unfortunate that term is used for these actions, what is actually taking place is a matter of ball control and using skill and speed to gain a base.

I've never heard of chess or checkers referrred to as killing, just removing pieces from the board. If one did view chess and checkers as a killing game, I wouldn't play it.

Several years ago I read a review about a PC game called Age of Empires. It was written by a homeschool mother who liked everything about the game except that in order to win not only did the player have to eliminate the enemy armies, but also eliminate every civilian as well. (I've read since that time there are apparently other modes of play which don't require the elimination of the entire population but I'm not sure how that all works). In any event, the homeschool mother didn't think it was a good thing to teach that killing women and civilians in general was a good idea.

Does anyone happen to remember when most all Baptists wouldn't play any game of cards for the sake of avoiding even the appearance of evil?

[HappyChristian]

Chess originated as a war game. It was actually diplomatic in a way because people didn't actually die...

[JerryNumbers]

Realistic or life-like games are where true aspects of life are presented are greatly different from a general game.

In basketball and baseball for example, players are not actually stealing anything. While it's unfortunate that term is used for these actions, what is actually taking place is a matter of ball control and using skill and speed to gain a base.

I've never heard of chess or checkers referrred to as killing, just removing pieces from the board. If one did view chess and checkers as a killing game, I wouldn't play it.

Several years ago I read a review about a PC game called Age of Empires. It was written by a homeschool mother who liked everything about the game except that in order to win not only did the player have to eliminate the enemy armies, but also eliminate every civilian as well. (I've read since that time there are apparently other modes of play which don't require the elimination of the entire population but I'm not sure how that all works). In any event, the homeschool mother didn't think it was a good thing to teach that killing women and civilians in general was a good idea.

Does anyone happen to remember when most all Baptists wouldn't play any game of cards for the sake of avoiding even the appearance of evil?

Yes, and it would be nice if many were still that way, I know way to many Christians are influence way to much by the world and not near enough by God and His Word.

I still remember reading a sermon by the great Sam Jones of yesterday years saying that when his son was about 14 it was time for him to put away the ball game and get to work. Perhaps many would be much better off now to do the same thing today.

[Annie]

Realistic or life-like games are where true aspects of life are presented are greatly different from a general game.

Good point, John. The setup of Settlers falls (on the spectrum) closer to a "general game" than it does to a "virtual reality game" like Grand Theft Auto. Perhaps it would be better to describe the game in more detail...

In basic Settlers, the OBject of the game is to reach 10 points. A player does this by placing various pieces ("roads," "settlements," and "cities") on the game board, which is constructed from "land" tiles of various "resources": wood, brick, wheat, sheep, and ore. Each "land" tile is assigned a particular dice roll, and when that dice amount is rolled, each player who has built a settlement or city on that tile gets to collect that resource. Resources are needed to build more settlements, roads, and cities, as well as to develop an army (to protect one's land from the "rOBber") and OBtain other benefits. The game is very strategic, in that a player must evaluate the board, decide what resources he will settle on, and figure out ways to get the resources he is lacking (by settling on a trading port, or trading with others abounding in that resource, etc.).

Settlers would be a fairly short, easy game without its "setback" elements, one of which is the "rOBber" pawn. A player's strategy must encompass how he will plan to be ready for the "rOBber" to strike. The "rOBber" is not any one "person"; it is just a scenario that all players have to deal with and try to avoid. Whenever a seven is rolled, the player who rolled that seven moves the "rOBber" pawn onto a high-producing "resource" tile (usually a tile belonging to the player who is winning) and draws a card from that player. If that player has a "knight" card, then on his turn he can drive the rOBber away, placing it on a different tile and drawing a card. The "rOBber" element of the game is helpful in that it increases the strategy, and keeps one player from running away with all of the points while the other players helplessly watch.

You could prOBably say that Settlers is like Risk and Age of Empires (never heard of that game until this thread) in that real-life scenarios are being enacted with game pieces. But unlike Age of Empires, in which the whole OBject of the game is to kill (civilians?), Settlers is more of a "building" game, with the "rOBber" thrown in as a nuisance to everyone. ROBbing is not the OBject of the game for anyone. No one "wants to be the rOBber" for the sake of rOBbing. And, as I mentioned before, no true "property rights" are involved. From a game standpoint, the "stealing" in Settlers is comparable to the stealing in basketball; it is done merely to hinder the opposition and to give a player the opportunity to score. "Stealing" is not "scoring."

It's hard to explain such a complex game in a forum post, but I hope my attempt to do so clarifies things a bit. Edited December 4, 2010 by Annie

[John81]

Yes, and it would be nice if many were still that way, I know way to many Christians are influence way to much by the world and not near enough by God and His Word.

I still remember reading a sermon by the great Sam Jones of yesterday years saying that when his son was about 14 it was time for him to put away the ball game and get to work. Perhaps many would be much better off now to do the same thing today.

When I think of such things I often ponder the words from Scripture "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." Today we have such an entertainment, play all the time culture which teaches we are to resist growing up, to resist putting away childish things and ways.

Games such as this, Age of Empires and many others are reality based games. Such games are designed to feature human interaction in realisitc type manners, whether dealing with the past, future or occassionally the present. They are designed as distractions from, sometimes even replacements, to the reality we face, and it's their realism, their real life aspects, which often attract such great followings.

[Annie]

When I think of such things I often ponder the words from Scripture "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." Today we have such an entertainment, play all the time culture which teaches we are to resist growing up, to resist putting away childish things and ways.

Games such as this, Age of Empires and many others are reality based games. Such games are designed to feature human interaction in realisitc type manners, whether dealing with the past, future or occassionally the present. They are designed as distractions from, sometimes even replacements, to the reality we face, and it's their realism, their real life aspects, which often attract such great followings.

Well said, John. I'll only add that all games, by virtue of the definition of "game," are "diversions"/entertainment and have the potential of becoming idols in our lives by distracting us from the mission God has for us. There's nothing wrong with a family sitting down to enjoy an evening of playing board games (including "scenario-based" games); we've had some great connections and conversations with our kids (and other friends) over games of Settlers. But, certainly, such things (as all other gifts from God) must be enjoyed in moderation. And, every Christian has been given the opportunity to develop the discernment needed to decide for himself and his family how to live out this principle.

Some games (especially video and online games) have what appear to me to be addictive qualities, as well as having more potential of, as you said, replacing or at least hindering "real-life" human interaction. Board games have far less power to do these things, since players are interacting with each other, eating together, and socializing even as they play the game. They actually force human interaction, not replace it. Unlike video games, they don't provide the "real life aspects" that players experience when all of their senses (or at least sight, hearing, and touch) are completely involved and absorbed in the "other world" of cyberspace or the game station screen. Sure, board games can get addictive if you let them (just like anything can), but, again, don't have as much potential to do that as true "virtual reality" games. Edited December 4, 2010 by Annie

[Anon]

This "woman on the internet" says that if you are feeling doubtful about something, maybe God is trying to tell you something....

[John81]

This "woman on the internet" says that if you are feeling doubtful about something, maybe God is trying to tell you something....

[JerryNumbers]

I think most people play way to many games, not that I'm against games. Maybe that one of the type game Donald Trump played and it helpped him to reach the goals he has reached.

Maybe we need to do more to get our children to think about God, Jesus, what its all about to be a real Christain, instead of games that may very well make them covetous, and full of want to be wealthy, dreams of being rich, as people such as Donald Trump.

I just don't see God's ways being taught the least bit in that game, but the opposite.

[Annie]

I think most people play way to many games, not that I'm against games. Maybe that one of the type game Donald Trump played and it helpped him to reach the goals he has reached.

Maybe we need to do more to get our children to think about God, Jesus, what its all about to be a real Christain, instead of games that may very well make them covetous, and full of want to be wealthy, dreams of being rich, as people such as Donald Trump.

I just don't see God's ways being taught the least bit in that game, but the opposite.

Actually, it's a game that reflects the kind of things the colonists who settled and built this nation did. It's not a "get rich quick" game--doesn't have anything to do with wealth, just survival in a new land, like, say, Jamestown or Plymouth. Playing Settlers does not promote covetousness any more than any other game I'm aware of. And, as far as "the opposite of God's ways" being taught in the game...I don't see that at all. If anything, it's a game that teaches wise stewardship of resources, as well as the sowing and reaping principle and the prudence/planning principles that are repeated throughout Proverbs.

I agree with you that many people are too entertainment-centered. Edited December 6, 2010 by Annie

[JerryNumbers]

Well them, as we are Christians them the 1st step at building a nation would be hit the knees in prayer, not trying to accumulate more than others in order to come out the winner.

Its just another game that teach children to want and have of which most get plenty of without that type of games.

[Annie]

Well them, as we are Christians them the 1st step at building a nation would be hit the knees in prayer, not trying to accumulate more than others in order to come out the winner.

Its just another game that teach children to want and have of which most get plenty of without that type of games.

Jerry, I guess you'd have to play the game to understand what I'm saying...It seems like you're just being stubborn, and I'm not sure why, since, having never played the game, you've never even gotten a feel for what it is like. It's pretty hypocritical and judgmental of you to say, "It's just another game that teach [sic] children to want and have of which most get plenty of [sic] without that type of games [sic]" when you really don't have any experience with the game at all, and therefore (I say this kindly) really cannot know what you are talking about. The fact of the matter (from someone who has played the game with her family) is that the game does not teach anything of the sort. My children, who enjoy playing Settlers, are very content with what they have, and are fine with the fact that their daddy and I do not buy them Christmas presents as a rule. This week, due to a budget crunch, we'll be eating Ramen noodles for supper on two nights and potato soup two nights. The kids are not complaining. This year, they wanted to take the money we would have spent on a Thanksgiving dinner, and buy groceries for a needy family in our church. They do not ask for game stations, gadgets, or gizmos (they don't have any of those things); they never complain that "we don't have enough money"; and they talk often about how rich and blessed we are as a family (which we are!). I say these things not to brag on my kids (although I think they're pretty special, of course), but to help you to understand that covetousness is not something we're cultivating in our household...We would never allow our kids (or ourselves, for that matter) to play a game that encouraged greed, jealousy, and covetousness.

I guess all I'm asking you, Jerry, is simply to talk sensibly about these things. It isn't sensible to criticize a game you have never played, and therefore don't understand, and, by implication, to accuse people who play the game of instilling covetousness in their children. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, uninformed as it is...but you're way off base in this case. Edited December 6, 2010 by Annie

[John81]

It seems what Jerry is saying is that for Christians the most important aspect of nation building is the individuals relationships with Christ and their OBedience to Him. Since this game doesn't address that, it teaches the secular aspects of doing what one can using their own strength and wisdom to achieve success.

I've not played this particular game, but I have played similar games in the past, and they leave God out.

Have you ever played Bible trivia or other biblical based games? With some of these one can have a fun time while being built up in the Word and some can gain a greater understanding of Scripture and a deeper desire to study the Word.