When was the last sacrifice acceptible

[rancher824]

I asked this question in another thread and received one answer before the thread was locked by the author. Just wanting to get a few more answers.


"View Postrancher824, on 24 OctOBer 2010 - 09:43 PM, said:
Just wondering, since it has been stated that any future temple would be disgusting to God because of Christ having made the supreme sacrifice on calvary, at what time were the christian jews to stop going to the temple to do sacrifices? Was it right after the crucifiction and resurrection, or were they to continue until the destruction in 70 ad?"


"Christ was the final sacrifice. No sacrifices were necessary or acceptable after that.
In Christ,
John "

[Covenanter]

The Acts period - the Apostolic period - is transitional from the old covenant to the new; from Jerusalem temple centred worship to acceptable worship wherever the Lord's people gather.

All sacrifices pointed to Christ, & under the OC were offered in anticipation, & were acceptable only when offered by those whose heart was 'circumcised' - who walked uprightly in faith.

The multitude of sacrifices offered while the people were living in wickedness were not acceptable, in fact were repugnant to God.

Isa 1:10 ¶ Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose [is] the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

Even circumcision itself was worthless.
Deu 10:12 ¶ And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
...
14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens [is] the LORD'S thy God, the earth [also], with all that therein [is].
...
16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

It is clear from Acts that sacrificial worship according the the OC did continue to be practised by believers, including Paul. But in the providence of God, Paul was prevented from sacrificing in Acts 21.

These verses are significant.

Jhn 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were OBedient to the faith.

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven [is] my throne, and earth [is] my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what [is] the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.

Act 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [and] concluded that they OBserve no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
26 ¶ Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

[JerryNumbers]

Mt 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Of course it changed in that moment of time, and as previously stated, the sacrifices of animals never forgave sins it just pointed towards Christ.

Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Yet many were reluctant to give up the sacrificing of animals.

[Covenanter]

Mt 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Of course it changed in that moment of time, and as previously stated, the sacrifices of animals never forgave sins it just pointed towards Christ.

Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Yet many were reluctant to give up the sacrificing of animals.

I agree, but, there were no instructions for Christian Jews to cease worship including sacrifices. Paul, 30 years converted, joined in the sacrificial vow. (Acts 21)

Just as the town clerk could say of Paul, Act 19:37 For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither rOBbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess. So it was said of the new believers, Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Paul was careful to avoid giving offence to the Jews, surely offence would be given had the reports been true:

[Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.

Its seems that while the temple stood, OC worship was permitted. Interesting Hebrews speaks of the OC which decayeth and waxeth old. The rituals did continue, but would be brought to an end at the destruction.

Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

Did the Jewish Christians continue the Passover annually? Or was it superceded by the frequent Lord's supper? Was Paul still celebrating the feast of Passover?

[Invicta]

I agree, but, there were no instructions for Christian Jews to cease worship including sacrifices. Paul, 30 years converted, joined in the sacrificial vow. (Acts 21)

Just as the town clerk could say of Paul, Act 19:37 For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither rOBbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess. So it was said of the new believers, Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Paul was careful to avoid giving offence to the Jews, surely offence would be given had the reports been true:

[Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.

Its seems that while the temple stood, OC worship was permitted. Interesting Hebrews speaks of the OC which decayeth and waxeth old. The rituals did continue, but would be brought to an end at the destruction.

Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

Did the Jewish Christians continue the Passover annually? Or was it superceded by the frequent Lord's supper? Was Paul still celebrating the feast of Passover?

All the sacrifices in the OT were looking forward to the crucifiction, when God would provide a lamb.

The actual sacrifice failed on the 17th day of Panemus [Tammuz] as recorded by Josephus. (War 6:2:1.) That was in AD 70. He also recorded the day when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies, the thirteieth day of the month of Hyperberetus (Tisri) Luke 21:20, Mark 13:14, Matt. 24:15 That was in AD 66. [Wars 2:19:4.] This was 3 years and 7 months earlier than the failure of the sacrifice, and 45 days before the destruction of the temple. See Daniel 12:11. The destruction of the temple was 45 days after the sacrifice failed, on the 10th of Lous [Ab} Wars 6:4:5, the same day of the year that it was previously destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. Dan 12:12.

It should be noted that the war with Rome really started when the Zealots refused to continue the practice of offering sacrifices on behalf of foreigners and as the most notable foreigner at the time for whom sacrifices were offerd was Nero Caesar, he was not best pleased.


God had allowed one generation of Jews to repent,and believe the gospel Matt 23:36, Matt 24:35,
Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32, befor He took vengence on them for killing His Son. Luke 21:22, completing quotation in Luke 4:18-21, Isaiah 61:1-2. Edited October 26, 2010 by Invicta

[rancher824]

OK, Jerry, if the sacrifices were to have ended at the point that the veil was rent, why were the church leaders still taking part? Yes I realize that any of us can be caught up in sin. But I do not see the Lord pointing out that they were wrong for such. Even the Apostle Paul was in on it, whether or not he was able to complete it. He was going through a ceremonial cleansing. Yes, he was arrested. But it seems the arrest was in God's plan to bring the gospel to Caesars household. How could a man that gave us much of the NT be involved in idolatry while preaching God's word? For if the sacrifices were to stop with the veil, that would make it idolatry.

Covenanter and invicta. If the sacrifices were to end at the destruction of the temple, what were the reason for them between the cross and 70 a.d.? It would seem they would be as meaningless then as now. They would not be looking forward to the Lord.

Now for my answer. I see nowhere in scripture that the jews are told they must stop the sacrifices. Yes I know the verses around the samaritan woman. But they are simply stating that we do not have to return to Jerusalem. The requirement has been fulfilled. But even at that I see no requirement to stop the sacrifices. It was also stated that it would not be possible to restart the sacrifices because all records were destroyed as to who were of the tribe of Levi. But in the 1000 year reign, who is sitting on the throne? Yes I realize some do not believe in a coming 1000 year reign. But if it is so, who would be sitting on the throne? Those of us who fully believe in it know that it will be Jesus Christ himself. Why do I point this out?? Because the armies of the world put together trying to burn every bit of history could never touch HIS record book. If we are correct (and I do not see any chance other wise) that he will return and set up a 1000 year kingdom, He can point to each person and tell them all the names of their ancestors all the way back to Adam.

[Covenanter]

Covenanter and invicta. If the sacrifices were to end at the destruction of the temple, what were the reason for them between the cross and 70 a.d.? It would seem they would be as meaningless then as now. They would not be looking forward to the Lord.

God commanded the sacrificial worship. Its significance was only ever a pointer to Christ, so of itself it was never effective. Believing priests would be able to teach the true significance to the worshippers. No-one could accuse the Christians of teaching contrary to Moses. So the commanded sacrifices continued until the temple was destroyed.

It is clear that they were not OBligatory for Christian Jews, but for a time they continued to OBserve the requirements of the Law. The reference to Timothy in prison suggests that Hebrews was written after Paul's arrest, when the temple was presumably closed to Christians, hence Heb. 13:10 Hbr 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

Paul had previously denounced the high priest as violating the Law. (Acts 23:3) It is prOBable that the high priest himself was the man of sin Paul prophesied would occupy the temple. (2 Thes. 2)

There is no suggestion in the NC Scriptures that sacrifices could be resumed according to the OC rituals with any validity, nor that there could be a future order of priests, other than believers who are kings and priests unto God and his Father;




Now for my answer. I see nowhere in scripture that the jews are told they must stop the sacrifices. Yes I know the verses around the samaritan woman. But they are simply stating that we do not have to return to Jerusalem. The requirement has been fulfilled. But even at that I see no requirement to stop the sacrifices. It was also stated that it would not be possible to restart the sacrifices because all records were destroyed as to who were of the tribe of Levi. But in the 1000 year reign, who is sitting on the throne? Yes I realize some do not believe in a coming 1000 year reign. But if it is so, who would be sitting on the throne? Those of us who fully believe in it know that it will be Jesus Christ himself. Why do I point this out?? Because the armies of the world put together trying to burn every bit of history could never touch HIS record book. If we are correct (and I do not see any chance other wise) that he will return and set up a 1000 year kingdom, He can point to each person and tell them all the names of their ancestors all the way back to Adam.

Hebrews tells us that a new unchanging, undying priesthood - order of Melchizedek - was prophesied. The Levitical/Aaronic priesthood was only a shadow. If those sacrifices were effective, they would cease:

Hbr 10:1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Jesus' sacrifice on Calvary was effective.

[Invicta]

Covenanter and invicta. If the sacrifices were to end at the destruction of the temple, what were the reason for them between the cross and 70 a.d.? It would seem they would be as meaningless then as now. They would not be looking forward to the Lord.

Now for my answer. I see nowhere in scripture that the jews are told they must stop the sacrifices. Yes I know the verses around the samaritan woman. But they are simply stating that we do not have to return to Jerusalem. The requirement has been fulfilled. But even at that I see no requirement to stop the sacrifices. It was also stated that it would not be possible to restart the sacrifices because all records were destroyed as to who were of the tribe of Levi. But in the 1000 year reign, who is sitting on the throne? Yes I realize some do not believe in a coming 1000 year reign. But if it is so, who would be sitting on the throne? Those of us who fully believe in it know that it will be Jesus Christ himself. Why do I point this out?? Because the armies of the world put together trying to burn every bit of history could never touch HIS record book. If we are correct (and I do not see any chance other wise) that he will return and set up a 1000 year kingdom, He can point to each person and tell them all the names of their ancestors all the way back to Adam.

I know that anyone who teaches that can not see otherwise. Most will not even discuss it or refer back to the scriptures. Most that I have spoken to will just shout at you and walk away, or they will close their threads.

A church I once belonged to had a preacher along who was a converted Jew and he did a demonstration of a modern passover. I cannot remember all the prayers that they said, but the had a table set up, almost like a communion feast. There was a bottle of wine and a loaf of bread. There was also the legbone of a lamb to remind them of the passover sacrifice. There was always an extra place set at the table for Elijah, should he come. And it ended with "Next year in Jerusalem."

I tried to get our current church to ask him along, but he went to be with the Lord before then.

When he became a Christian his family held a funeral service for him, but I believe he was partly reconciled to them many years later.

Incidentally, I have always considered myself an historical millenialist but you folks are making me think that I should reconsider the millenialist teaching.

[Covenanter]

PLEEEEEEEEZ, all you premils who want a restoration of the temple & temple sacrificial worship, READ THE LETTER TO THE HEBREWS.

1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Why look for future fulfilment of the OC prophets? Look unto Jesus!

Heb. 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

[JerryNumbers]

PLEEEEEEEEZ, all you premils who want a restoration of the temple & temple sacrificial worship, READ THE LETTER TO THE HEBREWS.

1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Why look for future fulfilment of the OC prophets? Look unto Jesus!

Heb. 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Jesus is a stumbling block, stone, for many.


8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disOBedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1 Peter 2:8 (KJV)

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Cor 1:23 (KJV)

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 9:32-33 (KJV)

Instead of rightly accepting Him as the gift God has offered freely by grace through faith, many go back to works and or sacrifices in order to try to be saved. Of they stay lost in their sins.