American Revolution: Biblical or Not?

[JerryNumbers]

<br /><br /><br />This is at the heart of the argument. What happens when the government begans to praise evildoers and punish those who do well? Is it still the government of God? We are getting to this point now.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

That is real easy. Of course its already been explained.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to OBey God rather than men.
Acts 5:29 (KJV)

Most wars come about why, lust. For instant, the war of 1812 the cry was taxations without representation, that is lust for money, along with lust for power.

You do not disOBey God by paying the taxes your government demands.

21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Matt 22:21 (KJV)

Jesus never told them to go to war so that your taxes will be less, no, He "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."

In fact Jesus never implies we are to pick up, go to war, and live by the sword.

The way of Jesus is so much different than the way of man, the way of man comes natural, the ways of Jesus comes only by being born again and surrendering our will to Him, them trusting Him, putting all of our faith in Him, even placing our life into His hands. Remember His promise, I will never forsake nor leave thee.

[Annie]

Annie, Do you know of a man that has been perfect, outside of Christ the Savior? Do you think a man has to be perfect to enter heaven, to be saved? You seem to be inferring that ROBert E. Lee has to make heaven under his on merit. Isn't man saved by grace through faith, not of works, not of himself, its a gift?

And you tell heartstrings that he will not get answers, there has been Bible answers, along with Bible Scriptures, yet you refuse them..

He still hasn't gotten a straight answer to his question about ROBert E. Lee. It's really not that hard...You can say, "Yes, Lee was wrong to support secession by fighting with the South against the federal government," or, "No, Lee was not wrong to support secession by fighting with the South against the federal government." But, for some reason, Lee (along with the South) is too "sacred" to criticize, and any talk about TWBTS is verboten, despite the fact that it, like the WFI, is a war involving secession and fighting against federal government.

[Crushmaster]

This is at the heart of the argument. What happens when the government begans to praise evildoers and punish those who do well? Is it still the government of God? We are getting to this point now.

What happens if they start ordering evil - like, demanded abortions, and other things contrary to the Word of God?
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

[John81]

Rome at the time God had Paul pen the words of Romans 13 was a vile and wicked government, often rewarding evil and suppressing good. Romans 13 doesn't tell Christians to submit to their governments if they are perfect, follow certain rules or meet specific conditions. Romans 13 simply tells Christians to submit to their government.

[John81]

Really?
I thought this topic was about whether it was Biblcally right to rebel against your own government....or somehing along those lines.

No, the topic is whether or not Christians bringing about and prosecuting the American Revolution were walking in accord with Romans 13 or not.

[John81]

What happens if they start ordering evil - like, demanded abortions, and other things contrary to the Word of God?
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

This brings up a good reason why Christians are commanded to submit to their governments as is. No government is perfect yet God can work His will through any government. By the reasoning of those who talk around Romans 13 giving excuse for those who rebelled against England, Christians should be doing the same and more given the wickedness of the government now.

Christians are to let their light shine regardless of the government they are under. Christians are to be about building the kingdom of God, not about building kingdoms on earth.

[trc123]

This brings up a good reason why Christians are commanded to submit to their governments as is. No government is perfect yet God can work His will through any government. By the reasoning of those who talk around Romans 13 giving excuse for those who rebelled against England, Christians should be doing the same and more given the wickedness of the government now.

Christians are to let their light shine regardless of the government they are under. Christians are to be about building the kingdom of God, not about building kingdoms on earth.

Building the kingdom of God like they did during the crusades?

[John81]

Building the kingdom of God like they did during the crusades?

OBviously you know the Catholic Crusades had nothing to do with building the kingdom of God.

[trc123]

OBviously you know the Catholic Crusades had nothing to do with building the kingdom of God.

OBviously I do.

[heartstrings]

No, the topic is whether or not Christians bringing about and prosecuting the American Revolution were walking in accord with Romans 13 or not.

Unbelievable!!!
What's the difference?

[John81]

Unbelievable!!!
What's the difference?

Specificity for focus.

[Annie]

By the reasoning of those who talk around Romans 13 giving excuse for those who rebelled against England, Christians should be doing the same and more given the wickedness of the government now.

Not true, John. Nothing in Romans 13 says that Christians should or should not secede from one government, and/or change citizenship, and/or establish a new government. There's nothing in the passage that is prescriptive or proscriptive when it comes to particulars such as these. Those who would use Romans 13 to say that Christians SHOULD "rebel" or SHOULD NOT ever support secession are adding to God's Word.

Crushmaster mentioned things like government-forced abortions. I hope that you would at least agree that Christians should resist things like this. "We ought to OBey God rather than man," as Paul said. If we cannot find agreement on this simple matter, I must say I would lose quite a bit of respect for you, not to mention your whole position on the matter of Christians and government.

Christians are to let their light shine regardless of the government they are under. Christians are to be about building the kingdom of God, not about building kingdoms on earth.

100% agreed. Earthly "kingdom building" was not what the colonists were doing when they seceded from Britain.

[JerryNumbers]

1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
1Pe 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Annie, That just blew the lid off of your theory, Bible teachings. Why not just 'trust and OBey,' and trust Him with all the promises He has given us.

Its just plain difficult to trust God, without trying to help God out.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Jerry80871852

[John81]

Under English rule at the time of the American Revolution it was illegal to leave England in any manner without English approval. The American colonists who insighted and prosecuted the American Revolution had to first violate English law and rebel against their government before they could even presume to declare independence and claim to have formed their own government. Thus Romans 13 was violated by any Christian involved.