Where Are They?

[John81]

During the past 30 years there have been many movements hailed as the answer for Christians and conservatives. These were proclaimed to be the means by which Christianity and traditional Americanism would be restored. Christians and conservatives flocked to them for a time. Then what?

Following is a list of some of these movements:

Moral Majority

Reagan Revolution

Republican Revolution (Gingrich congress and Contract with America)

Promise Keepers (they even managed to gather between 1.5 and 3 million men on the Mall in DC)

Of course there were others, including the Perot movement which spawned a new Party, but the above are prOBably most notable and recognized by most.

Today we have the Tea Party movement and the same proclamations made about the previous movements are now made about this one. What happened to the other movements? Why did all of them fail to "restore America"? Where did all the people go who were once so fired up in these movements? Why is America so much worse off today than 30 years ago even though all these movements had such large support and potential?

Does anyone see the Tea Party being able to break this losing cycle? How could they possibly do so?

Why, after all these years and all these "Christian and conservative" movements have the liberal-socialists continually gained strength and seen their agenda continually moved forward or holding steady?

Feel free to expand on any of this or even to introduce more.

[JerryNumbers]

During the past 30 years there have been many movements hailed as the answer for Christians and conservatives. These were proclaimed to be the means by which Christianity and traditional Americanism would be restored. Christians and conservatives flocked to them for a time. Then what?

Following is a list of some of these movements:

Moral Majority

Reagan Revolution

Republican Revolution (Gingrich congress and Contract with America)

Promise Keepers (they even managed to gather between 1.5 and 3 million men on the Mall in DC)

Of course there were others, including the Perot movement which spawned a new Party, but the above are prOBably most notable and recognized by most.

Today we have the Tea Party movement and the same proclamations made about the previous movements are now made about this one. What happened to the other movements? Why did all of them fail to "restore America"? Where did all the people go who were once so fired up in these movements? Why is America so much worse off today than 30 years ago even though all these movements had such large support and potential?

Does anyone see the Tea Party being able to break this losing cycle? How could they possibly do so?

Why, after all these years and all these "Christian and conservative" movements have the liberal-socialists continually gained strength and seen their agenda continually moved forward or holding steady?

Feel free to expand on any of this or even to introduce more.

Is it impossible to restore a nation that has fallen men, lost men, in its government, along with a few that claim to be saved yet those few only stand with Christ when its convenient for them.

Plus those movements you spoke of were political movements motivated by politics and the want of power.

[John81]

Is it impossible to restore a nation that has fallen men, lost men, in its government, along with a few that claim to be saved yet those few only stand with Christ when its convenient for them.

Plus those movements you spoke of were political movements motivated by politics and the want of power.

What about Promise Keepers? Their stated goal was not politically motivated.

[trc123]

What about Promise Keepers? Their stated goal was not politically motivated.

I don't recall Promise Keepers saying they were going to save the nation. I do remember them talking about men of integrity AND they are still going strong by the way.

[Covenanter]

I was converted in 1957, when evangelicals were talking about the 100 years since 1859 when the last genuine revival took place in England. Among the books I bought at that time was "Revival Year Sermons" preached by Spurgeon.

Prayers for revival did not bring about such a movement of the Holy Spirit. Instead the charismatic movement swept through the churches, while true Christ centred Christianity declined, & the religious & moral state of the country declined.

We even prayed that the influx of immigrants with other faiths would lead to them becoming Christian, & taking the Gospel back to their countries.

I've lived in Southall (little India) for 48 years & seen the churches decline & pagan temples & mosques flourish. Now the Indians are being displaced by Somalis & Afghanis & other Moslems.

[John81]

I don't recall Promise Keepers saying they were going to save the nation. I do remember them talking about men of integrity AND they are still going strong by the way.

The Promise Keepers were going to change the nation by restoring biblical manhood within families, churches, communities, society. They were filling stadiums, publishing numerous books, the talk of most churches, and as previously mentioned, managed to draw a huge gathering at the Mall in DC.

What happened? Why is the divorce rate still virtually the same within the church as before PK? Why are the churches still filled with women in unbiblical roles, men failing to step up, and youth leaving the church in increasing numbers?

Where is PK still going strong? Are they having any real success there?

Myself, I've heard nothing of PK (other than in the past tense) in years.

[John81]

I was converted in 1957, when evangelicals were talking about the 100 years since 1859 when the last genuine revival took place in England. Among the books I bought at that time was "Revival Year Sermons" preached by Spurgeon.

Prayers for revival did not bring about such a movement of the Holy Spirit. Instead the charismatic movement swept through the churches, while true Christ centred Christianity declined, & the religious & moral state of the country declined.

We even prayed that the influx of immigrants with other faiths would lead to them becoming Christian, & taking the Gospel back to their countries.

I've lived in Southall (little India) for 48 years & seen the churches decline & pagan temples & mosques flourish. Now the Indians are being displaced by Somalis & Afghanis & other Moslems.

I typed a lengthy reply to this but OB is back to eating posts.

The charismatic movement was still in full swing when I was born again in 1981 and presented many stumbling blocks in my walk with Christ during those early years. It's a shame the church didn't rise up and counter this in the power of Christ rather than just preaching against it in their churches.

Around here I see the Mormons are growing. In some places not that far from here where there are many immigrant Mexicans the Catholic churches are doing well and in a few places the Muslims are taking the lead.

The churches showing the greatest growth are the entertainment-centered churches with their puff 'n fluff messages and lots of loud music and visual stimulation via all the large video screens.

The church in this overall area that's reaching out the most, doing the most witnessing and evangelizing and impacting their community for Christ is a "Calvinist" church which means many other churches will have nothing to do with them other than to denounce them.

Other than that, the areas Christianity is either dwindling, stagnant or dormant.

Our church is in a small town in a very rural county and it seems we may have come real close to hitting the highest mark we can around here. Of course that doesn't stop us from doing the work of the Lord as we grow in Christ.

[irishman]

The "moral Majority" died with Jerry Falwell; it just shows that the political machine can overwhelm us if we are not careful and focused on the Lord. It is the same with most issues, actually, they can get the better of us, and sway us from the most important thing, which is Spirit-filled soul winning and service.

Reaganism also died with Reagan! A reformer will make an impact for awhile, but when the excitement fades, so does the influence. Often, when the leader of the movement dies, so does the movement.

The republican revolution had little or nothing to do with the Lord, it was inevitable that it destroy itself without Christ in the midst.

Promise Keepers? What is that? They were excited about things that the IFB's had taught for years from the pulpits of America, but they were too ecumenical. What promises were they keeping? I never did understand their title name.

There have always been reformers and movements for change, and they are even mentioned in the Bible! (Lk. 13:4 ?) also a man named Nicholas, or something like that drew away some claiming Himself to be the Lord. (could not find the reference!)

Edited October 8, 2010 by irishman

[John81]

The "moral Majority" died with Jerry Falwell; it just shows that the political machine can overwhelm us if we are not careful and focused on the Lord. It is the same with most issues, actually, they can get the better of us, and sway us from the most important thing, which is Spirit-filled soul winning and service.

Reaganism also died with Reagan! A reformer will make an impact for awhile, but when the excitement fades, so does the influence. Often, when the leader of the movement dies, so does the movement.

The republican revolution had little or nothing to do with the Lord, it was inevitable that it destroy itself without Christ in the midst.

Promise Keepers? What is that? They were excited about things that the IFB's had taught for years from the pulpits of America, but they were too ecumenical. What promises were they keeping? I never did understand their title name.

There have always been reformers and movements for change, and they are even mentioned in the Bible! (Lk. 13:4 ?) also a man named Nicholas, or something like that drew away some claiming Himself to be the Lord. (could not find the reference!)

I get your meaning, but just for clarity, the Moral Majority died before Falwell did. Falwell "disbanded" the Moral Majority. I believe he put a false spin upon it, claiming it was no longer needed, but in reality the Moral Majority actually began dying after they helped to elect Reagan as president. Most put too much stock into Reagan and actually believed that once they had him as president their work was over, all would be well.

You are right that the Reagan Revolution was centered upon Reagan himself and just as the Moral Majority passed on with the end of the Reagan era, so did most other "Reaganites".

Again we saw this same sort of thing with Christians and conservatives putting their faith in the Republican Party (again!) and Newt's congress and when that didn't bring about positive change the people fell away again.

Time and again professing Christians put their hope in a leader or the Repub Party rather than in Christ. Some of it has a veneer of Christianity around it, there are prayers put forth, but for the most part they have not been Christ-centered prayers but rather prayers along the lines of "this is our candidate Lord, bless him".

The Promise Keepers had a good basic idea but they failed to ground and center upon Christ. They way overfocused upon "racism" (a nebulous term) and took a worldly approach to address this rather than standing upon Scripture as the answer ("racism" isn't listed as a sin we are to concentrate upon, though there are aspects of sin involved in "racism" that if they were biblically addressed would in effect address "racism").

The other main prOBlem was a twin of this and that was their extreme ecumenicism which was also approached in a worldly manner.

One can't have a Christ-centered, God honouring, Spirit empowered movement if that movement is made up of false religionists. God spoke to this in Jeremiah, and elsewhere, with regards to His people trying to unite with God and false gods, and how this is sin and He will not honour such.

In the end, what could have been a good thing was turned into another worldly approach professing Christians take in an attempt to achieve their desired goals outside of the will of God.

Without Christ we can do nothing.

[HappyChristian]

The Moral Majority was completely a political group, disguised as spiritual. I was a fan of Reagan (to a point) but I was really turned off of the Moral Majority (and Falwell's "spirituality") when Falwell told Reagan (and I actually heard him say it) that he'd vote for Reagan even if the devil was his running mate. Absolute stupidity for a Baptist pastor (or any, really) to make such a comment! I think that had a lot to do with the MM dying off...

Reagan had his followers, and he was quite the charismatic (personality wise) person. He created a hope in people that maybe someone would go to DC and do what they should. His growth in different areas was interesting. He was a Dem for years and then became GOP because he favored smaller government. He was pro-choice and then became pro-life (even with his wife pushing him to compromise he wouldn't do it...even rebuked her in front of people once for trying to use others to convince him - and that was a shocker because there wasn't anyone in the world he loved more than Nancy and he never publicly spoke sharply to her).

I think we're seeing a revival of that attitude that grew when Reagan was in. The Tea Party has offered people some hope that perhaps we can get some people with Christian beliefs in office, from the local to the federal level. And that perhaps we can elect people who actually believe in and uphold the Constitution, whether they be Christian or not. Reagan's name has been invoked a lot duringt this time, because a good number of the people who are in favor of the Tea Party and who have become "big names" (like Palin, Bachmann, DeMint, etc) were most likely young Reaganites.

Young people were energized by Reagan and what he stood for. Bill Clinton came along and appealed to the young as well (not as much as Reagan...I don't know if we'll ever see as popular a POTUS again). Then, when OBama came along, he energized the youth, the blacks and the poor. But he's proven to be a liar, and many of those who were swayed by him are disillusioned.

And thus the Tea Party. We could be seeing the beginning of a third party, or a party that will take over the GOP. There hasn't been an energized populace like this in a very long time (I know not in my lifetime, or my mother's...). People are tired of corruption - even nonChristians are tired of it. Who knows what the next couple of elections will do? I'm sure there will be quite a bit of election fraud...

Will the Tea Party last? Who knows. It is a diverse group - all ages, both genders, all races, different economic levels, different education levels, and even different political identifications. Different from any third party group in the past - Perot, Bull Moose, etc.

Nothing can truly last unless Christ is the center. But if we can get our elected servants back in line with the Constitution, our freedom to witness for Christ will enable us to spread the Gospel and win those Mormons, Mulsims, etc.

edited to add: I knew someone who liked Promise Keepers a lot. Her hubby went to a meeting and came home to tell her he had been thinking about leaving her before he'd gone. When he was there, God convicted him about his vows to his wife...Not saying that an ecumenical group is scriptural, but it helped him.

[John81]

Perot actually pulled off a major, highly unexpected, vote tally. If memory serves (don't feel like looking it up) he pulled something like 19%; extremely high for any modern third party. The party which took off from this, the Reform Party, was a conglomoration which began gaining much ground. This is why such a big fight came about with folks trying to take over that party. Eventually Buchanan followers gained control and put him as their presidential candidate. Now I like many of Buchanan's positions and some of the biblical applications he puts forth (even though he's Catholic), yet I do believe he purposefully destroyed the Reform Party to keep it from becoming a threat to the Republican Party, to which he has always given full allegience regardless of how ill they treated him. The Reform Party stood poised to be a real threat to the Dem/Repub establishment, and especially posed a real threat to the ever left leaning Repub Party. While Buchanan ran hard as a Repub trying to win the presidential nomination in previous attempts, his run as a Reform Party presidential candidate was dismal at best and his choice of a totally unknown (nationally and by most) woman for his VP (when there were many willing, well-knowns willing to run as his VP) completely sunk not only any chance of victory, but any chance of even a good showing.

Sorry, didn't mean to get going on that so I'll just let that hang.

The Tea Party is having it's own fights within. Many want to keep religion out of the picture while many Christians want to make it more Christian. There are many who want to align with the GOP, some who want to be neutral, and some who want to form a Third Party and some who are totally against any Third Party.

No doubt, Promise Keepers helped some folks and they did put forth some good things, but they went way off track and in doing so they failed to meet the expectations they themselves put forth. Hey, I was saved while attending an Assembly of God church so God can work even in areas like this!

Reagan was a likable fellow with a positive attitude who was able to communicate well and give a sense of hope to many. Even today when they play a clip of him speaking I'll stop and listen. Even though he failed to deliver most of what he promised and he helped the country to continue its downward spiral, I still have a great fondness for him as president. My first presidential vote was for Reagan and he's the one president I could sit and listen to every speech he gave from beginning to end with ease.

Well, there I go again. (That was said in my mind in Reagan's voice )

While we yet have the freedom to do so why are Christians not more active trying to win the lost to Christ? Why don't we see tent meetings criss-crossing the land, street preachers all about, Christians witnessing and passing out tracts, books of John or New Testaments in parks and elsewhere? Why does it seem so many Christians are content to hunker down in their churches or vote every 2 to 4 years and wait for some politician to bring change? Why do I hear so many professing Christians saying we need another Billy Graham as they sit on their hands?

[JerryNumbers]

Perot actually pulled off a major, highly unexpected, vote tally. If memory serves (don't feel like looking it up) he pulled something like 19%; extremely high for any modern third party. The party which took off from this, the Reform Party, was a conglomoration which began gaining much ground. This is why such a big fight came about with folks trying to take over that party. Eventually Buchanan followers gained control and put him as their presidential candidate. Now I like many of Buchanan's positions and some of the biblical applications he puts forth (even though he's Catholic), yet I do believe he purposefully destroyed the Reform Party to keep it from becoming a threat to the Republican Party, to which he has always given full allegience regardless of how ill they treated him. The Reform Party stood poised to be a real threat to the Dem/Repub establishment, and especially posed a real threat to the ever left leaning Repub Party. While Buchanan ran hard as a Repub trying to win the presidential nomination in previous attempts, his run as a Reform Party presidential candidate was dismal at best and his choice of a totally unknown (nationally and by most) woman for his VP (when there were many willing, well-knowns willing to run as his VP) completely sunk not only any chance of victory, but any chance of even a good showing.

Sorry, didn't mean to get going on that so I'll just let that hang.

The Tea Party is having it's own fights within. Many want to keep religion out of the picture while many Christians want to make it more Christian. There are many who want to align with the GOP, some who want to be neutral, and some who want to form a Third Party and some who are totally against any Third Party.

No doubt, Promise Keepers helped some folks and they did put forth some good things, but they went way off track and in doing so they failed to meet the expectations they themselves put forth. Hey, I was saved while attending an Assembly of God church so God can work even in areas like this!

Reagan was a likable fellow with a positive attitude who was able to communicate well and give a sense of hope to many. Even today when they play a clip of him speaking I'll stop and listen. Even though he failed to deliver most of what he promised and he helped the country to continue its downward spiral, I still have a great fondness for him as president. My first presidential vote was for Reagan and he's the one president I could sit and listen to every speech he gave from beginning to end with ease.

Well, there I go again. (That was said in my mind in Reagan's voice )

While we yet have the freedom to do so why are Christians not more active trying to win the lost to Christ? Why don't we see tent meetings criss-crossing the land, street preachers all about, Christians witnessing and passing out tracts, books of John or New Testaments in parks and elsewhere? Why does it seem so many Christians are content to hunker down in their churches or vote every 2 to 4 years and wait for some politician to bring change? Why do I hear so many professing Christians saying we need another Billy Graham as they sit on their hands?

It seems most of the tea party people are always crying in one way or the other about not having enough money.

Perhaps they should 1st be thankful for what they now have, getting on their knees and stop complaining before the world what they do not have. They act if there only hope was in getting so and so elected and or so and so defeated so that they will make way for more and better jOBs, more money, and less taxes, sure is not being Christ like.

Wonder, do you suppose God would bless them much more, the Christians, if they would put their all efforts towards doing that which God had commandments them to do and stop complaining about what they do not have?

[John81]

It seems most of the tea party people are always crying in one way or the other about not having enough money.

Perhaps they should 1st be thankful for what they now have, getting on their knees and stop complaining before the world what they do not have. They act if there only hope was in getting so and so elected and or so and so defeated so that they will make way for more and better jOBs, more money, and less taxes, sure is not being Christ like.

Wonder, do you suppose God would bless them much more, the Christians, if they would put their all efforts towards doing that which God had commandments them to do and stop complaining about what they do not have?

This is one of the main prOBlems I see with the Tea Party movement, it's too centered upon economic issues. There are many within the Tea Party movement determined to keep the focus upon economics and to purposefully not address "social issues", which is another way of saying they want Christian morality left out.

If the zeal of the Tea Partiers is mostly upon economics, once the economy turns good for them their zeal will be gone and they'll return to their easy chairs.

Any movement that leaves Christ out is doomed to failure.

[HappyChristian]

As far as the Tea Party and economics: it is basically an economic movement! The "Tea" stands for "Taxed Enough Already." The main tenet has been that, because that is what the movement began as. I guess I'm not seeing the same groups you are seeing, because I know some personally, and through various media I've seen videos and read written statements that indicate that a good percentage of the people who ally with them are pro-life, anti-gay marriage, etc.

I don't see how their desire for lower taxes is being un-Christlike. I don't like the government extorting my money, either. Even though BO "signed" an executive order proclaiming that no health care funds will pay for abortion, funds are going to be funneled there...and the majority of Tea Party people are against that. As am I.

I would think that more Christians would be happy with the attempt to halt the corruption in DC, and to allow us to keep more of our own money (we'd have more to give to God's work, then, too)...Perhaps there are Christians whom God has called to be involved in governmental things: I think it's funny that there are folks who proclaim that we should only vote for Christians for office, and yet say that Christians shouldn't be involved as deeply in politics...

John, there is a great apathy amongst Christians (as I know you know). And that apathy has crossed over into other areas, so even nonChristians are apathetic about things. Christians are apathetic (not all, but many) about trying to win others to Christ, about trying to make certain that government is run correctly, etc. And so we have the mess we have.

I think Reagan made good on more of his promises than most give him credit for. He certainly did right by the country economically, with his Reaganomics. Even though the Dems vilify him, many of them made a lot of money during the '80's. I'm not saying that money is everything - but, let's face it. If money is tight, lots of things suffer. There've been a lot of missionaries that have had to come back home due to support dropping here while the dollar devalues and things get more expensive in the foreign field. It's easy for us to say that they should trust the Lord, but many countries won't allow Americans to stay if they aren't making a certain amount of money. Because, unlike America, the governments of those countries don't allow non-natives to sponge off the citizens...

[JerryNumbers]

Of course, they mix a few godly things with all their worldly stuff, that is their way to try to gain Christian votes, they were not born yesterday. Its politics, and politics is not godly.