Why can't we just trust the Lord?

[irishman]

I have just heard about a church that allows the staff to tithe BEFORE they get paid! That seems to be dishonest to me. Why don't we learn to trust God instead of looking for loopholes in the law to save money? When it comes to paying taxes, it often separates the "men from the boys". Don't we know that God is the God pf prosperity too? (Psa. 1:1-3~Joshua 1:7, 8~2 Chron. 26:5 Concerning Uzziah~ Joseph in Egypt, Daniel in Babylon, etc.)

I do not know what is meant by a "prosperity Gospel", but I have an idea it is a term that criticizes those who believe that God will prosper us, if we will do right. I don't know how often we are all tempted to take a shortcut, or to fudge a little in some area, to save a few bucks, when the Lord would have us do right and trust Him to work it out. He works best when we can't see the how we can work things out without cheating. By the way, a cheater is a junior thief! Dr. BOB Jones Sr. use to always say "Do right till the stars fall" and that is still good advice for us today. I will go one step further, and venture out on a limb, and say we don't need to invest in those quick money schemes, like Day trading, and other types of "investments", God will prosper us in due time, and see us through till He does. We are so lax in our daily faith at times, and though we can come up with a multitude of "good men" that did not prosper, it is still true according to God's Word. Read Psa. 91; why don't we believe it? Many say "Oh I believe it but... and that's where they fail, in the "but". Those "Good men" that we admired that did not do well, or maybe they did do well in some area, but did not prosper (prospering is more than monetary victory, but it definitely does include that) may have been weak in some area of their Christian life, that we do not see. No one knows another's heart; often we do not know what goes on behind closed doors, and in the deep recesses of a mans mind.

Believe God's Word, even when it doesn't sem to make sense!

Edited August 24, 2010 by irishman

[JerryNumbers]

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Some seem to be out to squeeze dollars out of God, and at every turn for them its always about money. The largest church I was ever a part of had better than 200 members. I believe there was never a Sunday morning or evening the subject of money, give, give, give, we've got to have more money, did not come up. there was always a program or something that needed more money. And the pastor was not bashful about telling everyone you need to dig deeper, and deeper, we've got to have more money. The church had several elderly members living on fixed incomes, I often wondered what their thoughts were.

Its the only church I was ever a part of that had that trouble, all others always lived within their means, and generally had the money to take care of most any need that came along without the members having to be told, we need more money, we've got to have it, you must dig deeper and give more.

As for me, I will settle for having spiritual blessing in heavenly places, all my needs are being met, I've got food, shelter, transportation.

Prosperity Gospel is that one proclaimed by Benny Hinn, and many others such as him, you know, those who lust for much money and live high on the hog off of the name of God, who constantly speak of sending in your seed money to them, and the more you send to them, the more God will give to you. Them there's that so called woman pastor, she if into that big time, heard her once get onto this. She told those who were listening that they've got to send in their seed money to her, if they are over stretched, and have more bills than they could pay for. Have a garage sale, send that money to her for their seed money, along with all of their bills, that she would pray over the money, and the bills, and God would take care of all their bills, just forget about them, and would enrich them with much money.

PS. Oh, according to her, she is the only one you can send your seed money to, yes, it has to be sent to her.

[irishman]

I csn't believ that people fall for that stuff! My own mother, before she passed away, was sending money to some "evangelist" for a prayer feather or something that was supposed to heal her, and give her a longer life. She lived to be 81, but I doubt that it had anything to do with the feather! Thank the Lord that He is keeping record, and "it'll all come out in the wash", as they say...but I have seen men that were thought to be good Christians, who not only suffered dire need, but took advantage of the blessing that God had freely given. Yes, as you implied, even preachers!

One preacher (and I know this first-hand, though doing nothing wrong, took a group of people on a trip to south, and while there, all he was interested in was making money from those places where you listen to their spiel and they pay you! (I forgot what they are called, but we prOBably all know of them). He, and his wife, though it was a reward for a bus contest, did not spend hardly any time with the people that went, but was out looking for "deals". It was very disappointing. He is a good pastor, tenderhearted, and compassionate, but he loves money--even has a business on the side, though he pastors a large church. As i said, it may not be sinful, but you wonder where the heart is, and the dedication to Christ! With that I will say no more, because he is getting folks saved, and changing lives.

[chev1958]

I have just heard about a church that allows the staff to tithe BEFORE they get paid!

Could you explain this a little further? Do you mean their tithes are deducted before they receive their paychecks?

[trc123]

Could you explain this a little further? Do you mean their tithes are deducted before they receive their paychecks?

Hey, what a novel idea. Pre-tax tithing.......just like pre-tax medical savings or premiums. But is it legal? That is the question.

[John81]

Lack of faith. It takes faith to trust God with our finances and every other aspect of our lives. How is it we can proclaim we trust God with our eternal soul yet we don't trust Him with our daily needs. This even though God has specifically promised to provide our needs.

Should we trust our own weak reasonings, tradition, the world, those around us or should we trust God and abide in His Word with regards to:

our giving to the church

our selection of a mate

our career or jOB

our church home

the training and education of our children

our political positions

our entertainment


In every area of our lives we are to submit to God, OBey Him and trust God with the outcome.

When we don't, what message do we send to the world, to new Christians, to weak Christians, to our families, to anyone who looks to see what we are really about?

If we marry outside the will of God, if we train our children in the ways of the world, if we choose an unbiblical church, if we support politically that which God calls sin, if our entertainment is the same as the worlds, then can we truly say we are following Christ?

[irishman]

No, its prOBably not legal, but it was used merely as an example of what I mean. I don't know all the ramifications of it, but I am quite sure it has something to do with not being taxed correctly--or, to put another way, dishonesty.

We find many "loopholes" when it comes to money--enough to soothe the conscience but get out of paying so much in taxes. One man told me that loopholes are there for a purpose, and they expect us to use them, or something similar to that, but usually they are as I stated, excuse not to do something we should do, and feel all right about it.

[JerryNumbers]

Marty, I feel that many people know tax loopholes are the American way, yet many think the American way is God's way too.

In fact many professing Christians live life according to the America way and feel they're walking hand in hand with Jesus.

[irishman]

Yeah, Jerry 80...., but the worst of it is that we look for "loopholes" in the Word of God too! We get so used to finding them that we try to serve God enough to "get by", but our hearts are far from Him. It is sad that some people I know, think that the Lord is using the government to meet their needs! They depend on the gov't. first, then the Lord after. They have the cart before the horse; in fact, if they trust in the Lord, first they don,t need the cart or the horse!

[John81]

Yeah, Jerry 80...., but the worst of it is that we look for "loopholes" in the Word of God too! We get so used to finding them that we try to serve God enough to "get by", but our hearts are far from Him. It is sad that some people I know, think that the Lord is using the government to meet their needs! They depend on the gov't. first, then the Lord after. They have the cart before the horse; in fact, if they trust in the Lord, first they don,t need the cart or the horse!

Now that's hitting the nail on the head! A great many professing Christians are more interested in their will than God's. Rather than study the Word to learn how to draw closer to the Lord and abide in His Word, they study the Word looking for "loopholes" that will allow them to justify doing things their way rather than God's.

I've heard so many professing Christians say, "As long as I get to heaven that's all I care about." They want Christ as Saviour but not as Lord. Where in Scripture does it say we can have it our way? Scripture says we must accept Christ as Saviour AND Lord. Christ says "if you love me you will keep my commandments". This positive statement implies that those who don't keep His commandments don't love Him.

What does Jesus say it's okay to put above Him, before Him or to replace His commands withs? Nothing! Jesus commands we are to forsake all and everything.

My heart aches for those who will one day stand before Christ and hear Him tell them they must depart because He never knew them. If we are not truly walking with Christ, truly following Him, how can we know one another?

The Word of God is clear as to what it means to be a true follower of Christ and warns us not to take this lightly but rather to check examine our salvation, examine our hearts and lives to see if we are indeed in Chirst or are we fooling ourselves and maybe others.

[Annie]

I'm not sure I understand the whole concept of "tithing before getting paid," or how this practice constitutes a "loophole." I'm not good at understanding financial terms, so maybe someone who can speak slowly and with small words could help me understand.

EDIT: Are you talking about the amount being automatically deducted (retained by the church) from a staff member's paycheck, so that the amount of the entire paycheck appears to be less than it really is, and the entire paycheck is not taxed? If so, I'd like to meet the staff of a church that pays high enough (even before the tithe is taken out) for its staff members to be taxed at all. Again, I'm not sure why anyone would go to measures like this if their paycheck doesn't even rise above "poverty level" standards, and they're going to get it all refunded, anyway. Seems a bit stupid to me.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Annie

[heartstrings]

Now that's hitting the nail on the head! A great many professing Christians are more interested in their will than God's. Rather than study the Word to learn how to draw closer to the Lord and abide in His Word, they study the Word looking for "loopholes" that will allow them to justify doing things their way rather than God's.

I've heard so many professing Christians say, "As long as I get to heaven that's all I care about." They want Christ as Saviour but not as Lord. Where in Scripture does it say we can have it our way? Scripture says we must accept Christ as Saviour AND Lord. Christ says "if you love me you will keep my commandments". This positive statement implies that those who don't keep His commandments don't love Him.

What does Jesus say it's okay to put above Him, before Him or to replace His commands withs? Nothing! Jesus commands we are to forsake all and everything.

My heart aches for those who will one day stand before Christ and hear Him tell them they must depart because He never knew them. If we are not truly walking with Christ, truly following Him, how can we know one another?

The Word of God is clear as to what it means to be a true follower of Christ and warns us not to take this lightly but rather to check examine our salvation, examine our hearts and lives to see if we are indeed in Chirst or are we fooling ourselves and maybe others.

Now THERE'S an interesting concept. You mean professing Christians have "wills"?

[John81]

"And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBey Him:" Hebrews 5:9

[JerryNumbers]

Now that's hitting the nail on the head! A great many professing Christians are more interested in their will than God's. Rather than study the Word to learn how to draw closer to the Lord and abide in His Word, they study the Word looking for "loopholes" that will allow them to justify doing things their way rather than God's.

I've heard so many professing Christians say, "As long as I get to heaven that's all I care about." They want Christ as Saviour but not as Lord. Where in Scripture does it say we can have it our way? Scripture says we must accept Christ as Saviour AND Lord. Christ says "if you love me you will keep my commandments". This positive statement implies that those who don't keep His commandments don't love Him.

What does Jesus say it's okay to put above Him, before Him or to replace His commands withs? Nothing! Jesus commands we are to forsake all and everything.

My heart aches for those who will one day stand before Christ and hear Him tell them they must depart because He never knew them. If we are not truly walking with Christ, truly following Him, how can we know one another?

The Word of God is clear as to what it means to be a true follower of Christ and warns us not to take this lightly but rather to check examine our salvation, examine our hearts and lives to see if we are indeed in Chirst or are we fooling ourselves and maybe others.

Yes, many times many of us forget about this verse.

Edit to add verse I left out!

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” Luke 6:46

Edited August 26, 2010 by Jerry80871852

[John81]

Yes, many times many of us forget about this verse.

Edit to add verse I left out!

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” Luke 6:46

This came up last night in our Bible study. How can one profess to have Jesus as their Saviour but not also have Him as their Lord? Biblically they can't! Jesus says He is to be our Lord and Saviour, not just our Saviour with His Lordship being an option we can accept or reject.

If we are not seeking to OBey Christ in all things, we had better examine our faith!

The book of James speaks to this when he proclaims that faith without works is dead. If we have true, saving faith this will be reflected in how we live our lives, in what we do and won't do. Do our lives reflect Christ or the world? Is Christ our Lord or have set another above Christ?