Do you know U.S. History?

[Invicta]

Here's a paraphrase: as long as citizens own guns, they will be free...

Like Somalia, I suppose you mean?

[HappyChristian]

Like Somalia, I suppose you mean?

No, I mean like America has been. (but I think you knew that... )

[Invicta]

No, I mean like America has been. (but I think you knew that... )

But you might end up like Somalia.

[John81]

Ameircans have guns today, well, the ones the government allows anyway, and yet Americans are not truly free. The freedom Americans once enjoyed is long gone and the elites are constantly busy working to further limit what is left of freedom in America.

[JerryNumbers]

It would not be safe for no one if we had 100% freedom to do as we will when we will.

No society could operate where everyone was 100% free.

[John81]

True liberty, true freedom, comes with natural boundaries such as one finds in Scripture. The Founders sought to establish a Republic based upon this. I would much rather have the very high percentage of freedom the Founders established than the very tiny percentage of freedom the government allows us today.

[ptwild]

No, I mean like America has been. (but I think you knew that... )

Happy, I believe you have said (or agreed with someone else) that our freedoms are consistantly beint irradicated by our government. Why are our guns not stopping this?

[HappyChristian]

Happy, I believe you have said (or agreed with someone else) that our freedoms are consistantly beint irradicated by our government. Why are our guns not stopping this?

Our guns are stopping the complete takeover at this point. The prOBlem is that way too many Americans have no idea of what this country is supposed to be because the past two to three generations have been reared without knowledge of the Constitution and the truth of our history.

As this was happening (and still is), people were beginning to describe this country as a democracy (because, technically, a republic falls into a democratic mold, but a republic further defines itself as a nation of laws by which every citizen is held), and so forth ad nauseum.

There have been many attempts to take away the citizen's guns. And it has been happening slowly but surely. And our freedoms have been going with them...

Ten rights of the American citizenry are outlined in the Bill of Rights. That was added to cement protection of the citizen, because those crafting the Constitution knew that man could and would strive to oppress. The second amendment is the teeth of the Bill of Rights - take away the guns, and there is NO way a person can defend himself against a corrupt government.

Continuing the thought of generations not knowing the Constitution: the federal government has intruded more and more into state's affairs - and people have come to accept it. That is one of the reasons why so many people who voted for BO did so: he promised health care reform...something which violates the 10th amendment. Any "reform" should Constitutionally be left up to each individual state. Finally, though, people who did know that it was wrong became vocal and that is part of what is stopping it. However: the talk now, even among many who know the Constitution, is to start at the drawing board. Wrong. It needs to be thrown out and handed to the states to deal with.

The above paragraph is a simple illustration in the ignorance of people, and the reason for our losing our freedoms. Our freedoms are being lost on the political front by people who do know what they are doing (read Saul Alinski, for starters)...and if we lose our guns, then there is no way to stop any of it.

Why are our freedoms being eradicated? Because We the People are ignorant of our history and are allowing it. And gun ownership is intrinsically tied up in that.

The actual quotes that I was paraphrasing:

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government

Jefferson

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed

Hamilton

And this very telling one:

The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, short swords, bows, spears, firearms, or other types of arms. The possession of unnecessary implements makes difficult the collection of taxes and dues and tends to foment uprisings.

Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Shogun (1588)

One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms.

Constitutional scholar Joseph Story (1840)

Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest.

from the declaration of the Constitutional Congress

But those who are reared being taught that guns are evil and should be eradicated are easy to fool about all their other freedoms....

[JerryNumbers]

As for our government, we've got a much friendlier government than Jesus and His 12 had, read about the struggles they had, and don't forget about what Paul went through. No matter how well off human are, they complain and cry for improvements, we would crave for it to be much better.

Also, remember what Paul stated.

Php 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
Php 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

I would hate to hear the complaints if many of us were going thought these things which Paul did, as well as the things Christ and His 12.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
2Co 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
2Co 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
2Co 6:9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
2Co 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

But yet in all of this, simply because of His faith in the Lord Paul was content through all of it while putting up treasures in heaven having much fewer earthly possessions than any of us.

[HappyChristian]

Our government is "friendlier" because of what it is. Even though Rome was a republic, it was an empire, with all the power vested in the emperor and the elites - although the emperor could be deposed if he broke the law. But ours was set up as a Republic, purposely without a king. That is the biggest difference. In the American republic, we the people are the emperor - the "leaders" are to OBey us, not the other way around. Yes, we are to OBey the laws, but the laws are to be what the people elect their legislature to enact.

BTW - did you know that, until the 17th amendment superseded it, the Constitution detailed that state legislatures were to elect federal Senators?

[JerryNumbers]

Our government is "friendlier" because of what it is. Even though Rome was a republic, it was an empire, with all the power vested in the emperor and the elites - although the emperor could be deposed if he broke the law. But ours was set up as a Republic, purposely without a king. That is the biggest difference. In the American republic, we the people are the emperor - the "leaders" are to OBey us, not the other way around. Yes, we are to OBey the laws, but the laws are to be what the people elect their legislature to enact.

BTW - did you know that, until the 17th amendment superseded it, the Constitution detailed that state legislatures were to elect federal Senators?

Are you saying you do not have it much better. along with more freedoms, than Jesus, and his 12, and Paul?

Can you imagine how much more good they could do having the freedoms, the money, the transportation, and means to reach people, which we have?

[HappyChristian]

Are you saying you do not have it much better. along with more freedoms, than Jesus, and his 12, and Paul?

Can you imagine how much more good they could do having the freedoms, the money, the transportation, and means to reach people, which we have?

Uh, where in the world did you get that? I put the word friendlier in quotes simply because governments aren't actually friendly...

Of course we have it better.

[Invicta]

Are you saying you do not have it much better. along with more freedoms, than Jesus, and his 12, and Paul?

Can you imagine how much more good they could do having the freedoms, the money, the transportation, and means to reach people, which we have?

You are not making an accurate comparison. The comparison should be between Americans and Romans, and there prOBably Romans had more freedoms. Jesus had all the freedoms he needed. It was the Jews who insisted on the crucifiction.

Your last para is a bit strange. Do you think that throwin ma=oney at the work is the answer? Jesus came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was minister to the circumcision. He also came to confirm the promises to the fathers. As such he had all he needed.

[JerryNumbers]

Jesus bought a hope to all mankind, but it was not a hope in mankind, it was not to put trust in man, it was not a hope in their government, but only in Himself. It seems way to many Christians share their hope with our government, instead of trying to change one heart at a time. That is they spend more time complaining about government and all its taking away from them than doing the works God has saved them to do.

We all know what will become of this world and its government, and the only investment that is worthwhile, that will not be destroyed is the investments we make in heaven, that work is summed up in three words, go, teach, baptize.

Mt 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mt 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

I like to keep up with what is taking place in our government, but I know this government is at complete odds with God and I know there is no changing it, that there is no hope in government, that the government is following the ways of this lost and dying world. Plus that Jesus did not waste His time trying to change the government, neither did He teach His disciples to waste their time trying to change their government, that they were under a much worse government than we are, had it much worse then we do, but He sent them forth to do those works He saved them to do. That they did, the works He taught them to do, while denying their self and the comfort they could have gained thru works in this world.

Mr 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.


Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Why not put our whole hope, faith, efforts, in Christ, and stop sharing our hope, faith, with our government, that our government will make this a better place, that our government will turn this country into a country that will follow Jesus. God has already judged this world, He has already told what the sentence would be, {see 2 Peter 3:10-11, its just a matter of when it will be carried out, at that time the only investment that will survive it, is the investments that are made in heaven.

Mt 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mt 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

I might add, many thought Jesus had come to set up His government in this world, many were sorely disappointed that was not His goal, but finally His disciples realized what Jesus' goal was, and His 12 made it their life works while denying self and putting all of their faith and hope in only Jesus, just as Paul did. We have more freedoms than they enjoyed, used wisely we could save one heart at a time, but we will not do that by sharing our faith with out government, getting certain people elected, a certain law passed, only by doing that which we are called to do, go, teach, baptize while putting all of our faith, hope, in Jesus just as His apostles did.