Do Methodist belives they can lose salvation?

[HappyChristian]

Daniel, that was unnecessary and not to be continued, thank you.

[Tonya88]

Hi there! I'm actually a UMC pastor and I'd be happy to share my understanding of our belief on backsliding with you. We basically believe there are 2 ways, based on Hebrews 6&10.  If someone willfully, publicly, and explicitly rejects Jesus as Savior after having confessed him, or if someone blasphemes against the Holy Spirit by declaring that the works of Jesus are the works of the evil one. I hope this answer is helpful! 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Tonya88

[*Light*]

Hi Tonya88, and welcome to this forum. I am trying to get a better understanding on the doctrines and creeds of the UMC. Why don't you tell us a little about yourself, perhaps through your testimony on how you received the Lord into your heart. Regarding your post . . . are you referring to just a Christian "backsliding", or a Christian "losing one's Salvation?" You had mentioned backsliding but not anything regarding the matter of whether a Genuine Christian can ultimately lose their Salvation. And do you believe that it's possible to blaspheme the Holy Spirit today? And if you do believe that a child of God can lose their Salvation, do you think that they can regain it?

God Bless!

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by (Omega)

[Pastor Matt]

Welcome @Tonya88. Are you viewing backsliding and losing salvation as the same?

[*Light*]

On February 2, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Tonya88 said:

Hi there! I'm actually a UMC pastor and I'd be happy to share my understanding of our belief on backsliding with you. We basically believe there are 2 ways, based on Hebrews 6&10.  If someone willfully, publicly, and explicitly rejects Jesus as Savior after having confessed him, or if someone blasphemes against the Holy Spirit by declaring that the works of Jesus are the works of the evil one. I hope this answer is helpful! 

Hi Tonya88,

The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit or the so-called "unpardonable sin" is the sin of rejecting in one's heart the Spirit's witness to Christ which He is making clear to the unbeliever receiving the gospel.  When the Spirit tells the unbeliever that the gospel you shared with him/her is true, they will either accept it and be saved, or else they will reject the Spirit who is testifying to their hearts through the gospel message; that rejection, calling the Spirit a liar, in effect, is unpardonable, because Jesus Christ is the only Sacrifice for sin.  The context in the gospels is one of unbelievers viewing miracles produced by the Holy Spirit and saying that the devil did them instead of the Holy Spirit.  That blasphemes the Spirit and also rejects His witness to the truth of the gospel -- and only by believing the gospel can a person be saved.  So this particular "unpardonable sin" is the sin of rejecting Christ.

There is also a sin unto death (Acts 5:1-11; 1 Cor.5:5; 11:30) that occurs with believers who engage in a spiral of reversion and sinfulness that grows ever worse making them an ever worse witness for Christ; at some point, the Lord is unwilling to tolerate their lack of responsiveness to His repeated calls to them to come back to sanctification and respond to discipline; at that point the discipline becomes terminal.  They are still believers and will still be in heaven with the rest of us, but absent reward. 

God Bless!    

[swathdiver]

I've watched their sermons and spoken with some people who attend their services and nobody ever mentioned the gospel or getting saved.  It was already assumed, like being in a catholic church.

[Jim_Alaska]

On 2/2/2018 at 3:35 PM, (Omega) said:

Hi Tony, and welcome to this forum.

Omega, You addressed this person as Tony. I may be mistaken, but I believe that HER name is Tonya and SHE is female. She or he can correct me if I'm wrong.   

[*Light*]

You're not mistaken. A Pastor named Tony came to my mind... 

[swathdiver]

Curious as to how these women get past 1st Timothy 3.

[Jim_Alaska]

They get past it by compromise in the form of "Political Correctness." I have even seen a female pastor being sanctioned by the ABA Convention on another forum I visit. They see nothing wrong with it.

[swathdiver]

So they just ignore the verses?  I was interested in learning how they explain them away.

[DaveW]

45 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

So they just ignore the verses?  I was interested in learning how they explain them away.

I have heard it explained roughly thus:
 

Quote

 

The passage:

1Ti 3:1-2
(1)  This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
(2)  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
 

only uses the terms "man" and "husband/wife" because of the prevailing socially accepted norms, and today in our more enlightened times, we understand that the terms apply to any person and to either partner of the appropriate relationship.

As such any person who wishes to be a bishop can be, and as long as you are in a stable relationship, that is fine.

 

 

I need to state CATEGORICALLY - that this is not my position, but it is what I have been told.

Also, it is not specific to the Methodists - I don't recall the association of the person who explained it to me in this way.

[Jim_Alaska]

That's what I mean by Political Correctness Bro. Dave, you hit it on the head.

[*Light*]

On 2/2/2018 at 10:10 AM, Tonya88 said:

Hi there! I'm actually a UMC pastor and I'd be happy to share my understanding of our belief on backsliding with you. We basically believe there are 2 ways, based on Hebrews 6&10.  If someone willfully, publicly, and explicitly rejects Jesus as Savior after having confessed him, or if someone blasphemes against the Holy Spirit by declaring that the works of Jesus are the works of the evil one. I hope this answer is helpful! 

Hebrews 6:4-6 is probably one of the most difficult passages to interpret if one does not take into consideration that CONTEXT IS KING.

For it is impossible for those who were once [enlightened], and have [tasted] of the heavenly gift, and were made [partakers] of the Holy Ghost, And have [tasted] the good word of God, and [the powers of the world to come], If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6)

An almost PERFECT example and parallel of that passage can be found during Jesus' ministry while on Earth when He confronted the religious hypocrites of his day. Jesus said that the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost can NEVER be forgiven. Why? The miracles of Jesus was one of the CLEAREST proof that they could have only be accomplished if He was God in the flesh, or one sent by God. What do I mean? The Pharisees:

1). HEARD the message of the Gospel from God Himself. (TASTED THE GOOD WORD)
2). EXPERIENCED and SAW the countless miracles that Jesus had performed.(TASTED THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME)
3). Had FOLLOWED Jesus around for years during His earthly ministry as He taught in the synagogues. (PARTAKERS)
4). WRONGFULLY accused Him (Jesus) of working under the influence of Satan.
5). REJECTED Jesus and His message after having heard the full revelation of the truth. (FALL AWAY/ENLIGHTENED)

If one were to REJECT the way of Salvation after having experienced ALL OF THE ABOVE. Hebrews 10:26 says that there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, if we REJECT all of the above; because the full revelation of the truth has been given. Such a one would NEVER turn their life over to Christ if that were to be the case (cf. Lk.16:31).

Renew them AGAIN unto repentance: Justification has ALWAYS been by putting our trust in God ALONE for Salvation (Rom. 3:28; 4:5; 5:1; 11:6; Gal. 2:16,21; Phil. 3:9; Jas. 2:23). Some of the brethren (ethnic Jews) had "fallen away" from Grace (cf. Gal. 5:4) which was found throughout the Old Testament, and Abraham being an example for them. However, they were given the admonition that if they were to attempt to attain righteousness through the law having received the FULL REVELATION (see above); to renew them "again UNTO repentance" (i.e., renewing them to the true way of righteousness by Grace through Faith) would be IMPOSSIBLE since no more revelation of the truth can be given. Not that they were once saved or repentant; but to "renew" them (to revert them back to the way of justification taught by the Apostles and the writer) UNTO the Grace of God and salvation originally taught to them after having departed (fallen away) from its truth; and by attempting to be justified or to have a righteous standing with God through the works of the law. Again, not that they were once repentant, but rather to bring them to the state of repentance (UNTO justification and Salvation) after departing from the doctrines of Grace revealed to them in its ENTIRETY.

We can clearly see by observing the next section of the chapter in Hebrews 6 that vv. 9-11 mentioned by the writer, that those spoken of in vv. 4-6 are not directed towards born-again believers. In any case . . . it is still a warning to ALL, not only to the brethren ("ethnic Jews" -- not brothers or sisters in Christ) of the dangers of falling away.

But, beloved, we are persuaded [better things of you], and [things that accompany salvation], though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: (Hebrews 6:9-11)

God Bless!
 

Edited October 16, 2018 by (Omega)
Grammar and punctuation