Doctrines of Grace

[dwayner79]

No debate is more riddled with terms that don't make sense and stereotypes then that of predestination. I can't remember where most people are, so I am going to try to place what I think are the options (leaving off the extremist positions on either end), and see how the board fits:

2. Implored Faith. God's grace is available to all. Because people cannot want God on their own, God works in lives to try to get people to accept this grace. There are no prerequisites to gaining this grace, and the choice is up to the individual, but no one will seek it without help from God. 3. Foreknowledge Election. God's grace, while powerful enough to save all, will only save those whom God in the past predestined to be His children on the basis of His knowing that something in you would respond positively to a call of God on your life. The gift would be available to all people, but God already knows who will accept. 4. Faith Given. God's grace, while powerful enough to save all, will only save those whom God in the past predestined to be His children on the basis of working His will. Because people cannot want God on their own, God works in lives to bring people to a point where they accept this grace. [/list:u] Most baptist fall into these boundaries, so we will not worry about the rest of the positions. If your a mixture, choose the one that you are closest to and feel free to post clarification of your position if you want. HOWEVER! this is a poll. Its in the Polls section. Please do not make this into a Calvinism debate. I just want to know where, in general, people line up. Thanks.

• 1. Faith by request. God's grace is available to all. It is there for the taking for anyone who will simply ask. There are no prerequisites to gaining this grace, and the choice is up to you.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

[Tim]

The closest to my belief is Implored Faith.

[dwayner79]

17 views and only one taker?

[Bakershalfdozen]

I would say #2 is closest to what I believe. Salvation is all of God from start to finish but He does not force anyone to believe. I believe in God's foreknowledge as well as whosever will may come. They work together.

[Anon]

To be honest I am not familiar with the terminology. *shrugs*

[dwayner79]

To be honest I am not familiar with the terminology. *shrugs*

I tried to avoid the normal Armenian, Calvinism, reformed, jargon and try to define them on my own. Perhaps I did not do so well.

[Anon]

Oh duh I did not read your explanations, sorry...I glanced at the poll and was like "huh?" and didn't read on.

Ummmm

I would have to study it out...some verses support #1 and some support #2.... I usually figure God's Spirit works in everyone because the Bible says the world is without excuse which means everyone has the chance to get saved, including the fact the Spirit must move in everyone at least one time, giving them that chance. So I guess #1.5. :D

[ltl]

#1 = Arminianism = common in many new Evangelical, charismatic churches today.

#2 = What I adhere to.

#3 and #4 = Calvinism = #3 is the more "moderate" type, believed by Spurgeon and most other Reformed Baptists today. #4 is the more "hardline" Calvinist stand, of course many Presbyterians take this stand.

[kevinmiller]

At first when I saw it I almost didn't read on as well. lol
Good thing you had explanations...

I chose number 2.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(Romans 10:17)

[dwayner79]

I am surprised there are no takers on number 3. I remember Jerry (the Mod) explaining his position as that one almost verbatim.

@ltl

4 is Calvinism, 3 is not so much. In fact 4 is moderate Calvinists where there are positions that are further in that direction that would classify as hyper-Calvinism, etc.

[Anon]

I guess I must lean more towards "Armenianism" than others here.... I just think that 1 and 2 have to be combined, because Christ died for everyone and everyone is without excuse...but the Spirit also draws men to himself...so the only logical conclusion is a mix of the first two...that the Spirit draws everyone at least once in their life, in some way.

[kevinmiller]

I understood that 2 was more of salvation after conviction whereas 1 would be more of simply the pray a prayer idea. I don't know, blame Dwayne. :

[lettheredeemedsayso]

According to your definitions I selected implored faith. I am not calvanist.
I believe that the Bible teaches that God in His foreknowledge knew from the beginning who would accept Him. When a person accepts Christ it is because they used their free will to do so. Once we are saved we are predestined.


Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

[dwayner79]

Once we are saved we are predestined.

:? Like your cake and eat it too huh?

j/k... I am surprised by your definition that you did not choose 3, but thanks.

[Anon]

...predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. :D