Origins of the Baptist Church

[kevinmiller]

Good point Jess. I didn't even think about that...

[PreacherBen]

I like choice #5

Untracable origin, similar beliefs, sometimes.

The point I'm making is the more I read from church history. There have been all kinds of "baptists." Some were Calvinistic, some Arminian, some in between. Some did different kinds of baptism, communion, and even foot washing.

I used to be of the impression that the "the faith" mentioned in Jude 3 was the indenticle thing my pastor was teaching me in the, then 20th century. It sounded good at the time, but I don't believe that now.

In the book, 'A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs,' by David W. Bercot in the section titled, The Essence of Early Christianity he states:

"Users of this dictionary should first grasp the ethos of early Christianity. That ethos can be summarized in two basic principles: (1) the earliest Christians focused on living in the light of the Christian message and explaining that message to nonbelievers rather that on sharpening their theological prowess; and (2) early Christians doctrine is less elaborate and less defined than later formulations.

To say that the early Christians focused on living the gospel rather that on theological-hair splitting does not mean that individuals taught whatever they wanted. There were recognized boundaries that prevented such a laissez-faire attitude. Nonetheless, to the early Christians, the heart of their faith consisted of an obedient love relationship with Christ, not the ability to articulate dogma. None of the testimony of the writers in this volume arose from some professional theologians; rather like the apostle Paul, many lived in the trenches, on the cutting edge of Christian life, and in fact, a substantial number of these early Christian writers died as martyrs.

The early church concentrated chiefly on the nature of Christian living because the essental core of Christian belief (i.e., the "rule of faith") can be expressed quite briefly. The church believed that the Christian faith is a fairly simple one. Cyprian wrote, ""When the Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, came unto all, he gathered alike the learned and the unlearned. He published athe teachings of salvation to each sex and every age. he made a concise summary of His teachings, so that the memory of the scholars might no be burdened with the heavenly learning, we could quickly learn what was necessary to a simple faith.""

Irenaeus criticized the heretics for going beyond the simple teachings of the faith saying, "" they form opinions on what is beyond the limits of understanding, For this cause also the apostle says, 'Be not wise beyond what it is fitting to be wise, but be wise prudently.' "

In other words, we have made what we know today as the "Baptist" faith in all its differing interpretations. Was the church at Jerusalem an independent fundamental, Sunday School program, camel running (no buses then) church, with a Christian School and a College? Even our doctrine is a hybrid. Most of the "baptistic" churches of England and Europe were either Calvinistic or Arminian. However, over a period of time there was an amalgamation of doctrines that produced the, if you will, Calvaminian belief we have, namely, we believe in Free-will when it comes to getting saved, and unconditional security when it comes to staying saved. I am not saying it is not actually true, but I think our faith has evolved and the "baptist" church of our day didn't exist anytime before the last century.

Pro 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

It could very well be that our doctrine is a growing revelation as we draw closer and closer to the coming of the Lord. More light.

It sounds romantic and noble that "our church" is practicing what Paul and Peter practiced, or perhaps Polycarp and Ignatius, but it most likely has similar nuances, but is not the same.

[ltl]

I can't vote* for any of those because I do not believe that Jesus founded the Baptist church. Jesus founded His Church and there have always been groups (churches) of believers since Jesus' Ascension. They went by various names: "The Way", "Christians" in Antioch, etc. Down through the centuries there were true believers and eventually some of them were called "Ana-Baptists" because they re-baptized their converts from the RCC.

John in the N.T. (Jesus' cousin) was John the baptizer, not John the first of the Baptist denomination.



*The reason I said I couldn't vote is because each choice states that Jesus founded the Baptist church. If there was an option that said something about true believers who eventually came to be known as Baptists.... then I would have voted for that one.

Sorry, for I have forgotten to define what "Baptist" here means

Here Baptist DOES NOT mean a denominational name
but Baptist here means = Baptistic in practice

[JerryNumbers]

I was not going to make a reply, but 1 point needs to be cleared up.

I don't believe anyone has claimed that the early Church was know as a Baptist Church, but it is quite clear that they, the early church, taught what is taught in true Baptist Churches today, God's truth, and that is what its all about, God's truth nothing less.

For thru out history those who have held to what we call Baptist teachings have gone by many different names, read the Trail of Blood and you will find them and their various names, holding to this truth caused many of them to suffer, many to lose their lives at the hands of the Catholic Church.

What the Trail of Blood teaches is there always have been some of Jesus' true Churches in existence since He started His Church.

And may I add, I think its neat to see where everyone stands without going into a heated discussion that many of us may not agree on.

[ltl]

I am glad that there's so far no one who has voted for #4 so far. Because I don't think anyone here believes in #4.

[Mountainview]

[quote="ltl"]
Sorry, for I have forgotten to define what "Baptist" here means

Here Baptist DOES NOT mean a denominational name
but Baptist here means = Baptistic in practice
[/quote]

With the above, #3

[bibletotingunslinger]

[quote="lettheredeemedsayso"]
http://www.trailofblood.com/

This is the history of the Baptist church.


I previously posted the wrong link


http://www.siteone.com/religion/baptist ... Blood.html
[/quote]


:goodpost: :amen:

Bible believers, followers of Christ, those who hung onto the words of the Apostles, when refused to join the Catholic Hierarchy were persecuted for over 1000 years, the Catholic Hierarchy referred to these as Ana-Baptists primarily, other names were used during the dark ages. These believers adopted the name and were referred to as Baptist in short.
Over the years, some hanging onto the name, lost some of the doctrine, this damaging the name brought about the use of other names, some referred to as Protestant.
But, there has been hard core believers of The Bible, followers of Christ and the Apostles and have hung onto the name Baptist and living up to the meaning of the name.

:2cents :2cents :2cents :2cents :2cents :2cents :2cents :2cents :2cents :coffee :DH: :coffee

[Madeline]

:coffee