Is Repentance Necessary For Salvation?

[Guest Guest]

That verse is talking about individuals - however it is not talking about salvation. It is talking about whom the Lord chose to have the line of Christ come through.

Thats not true sir, you do lie ! #1 The theme and subject of the book of romans is salvation ! rom 1: 16

15So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

One of the basic rules of bible study is to never remove a text from its overall context , thats a sign of false teaching. Now let us establish that the whole book of romans is about the Gospel of God and his salvation !

rom 9 itself begins with a theme of salvation !

1I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:


4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

In fact , rom 9-11 is strictly about salvation of the jews !

1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

you do err sir in wrenching romans 9 out of the context of the theme of salvation...

[Guest Guest]

[Madeline]

[JJJ4given]

Esau, a saved man? Seems beyond doubtful:

Hebrews 12:14-17 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (15) Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; (16) Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. (17) For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

What did he seek carefully with tears? Was it repentance unto eternal life? Or repentance to get back the birthright? No where in Hebrews is eternal life talked about or mentioned. Esau was saved but he did not give due benevolence to the things of God. He gave up the birthright and had no way to get it back after doing so. He did not get to "inherit the blessing" because it had already been given to someone else. No amount of repenting in the world could get him back what he gave up.

The Gospel is by definition good news, so its primary purpose isn't conviction.
I suppose the death of Christ convicts people, as our sins have nailed him to the cross, but first we must understand our sins, which comes by the law. Conviction is the law's job.

Romans 10:12-17
12 ¶ For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The law is written on our hearts already(Romans 2:15). It is the preaching of the gospel which spurs people to come to the Lord. Preaching the gospel is the means by which God chose for the message of salvation to be delivered:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

What is "it"? "It" is the gospel. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. The power is in the message. That is what convicts people. I wasn't convicted of my sins even when the law was written in my heart. But when I heard the gospel message then the conviction came.

1 Corinthians 1
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

[Guest Guest]

[Guest Guest]

jjj says

Esau, a saved man? Seems beyond doubtful:

:puzzled:

[Guest Guest]

madelin says

Not until you admit that salvation is "the gift of God" and "not of works" are you born again and "created in Christ Jesus unto good works" (Eph. 2:8-10).

See you promote works, you are saying that one has to admit something, to get saved ! admitting is something man does, you are saying man has to do something to get saved..Works, Works and more Works...You are not of God ! You are under the curse of the law :sad

[Madeline]

madelin says



See you promote works, you are saying that one has to admit something, to get saved ! admitting is something man does, you are saying man has to do something to get saved..Works, Works and more Works...You are not of God ! You are under the curse of the law :sad

Pray tell, is faith a work?

[kevinmiller]

madelin says



See you promote works, you are saying that one has to admit something, to get saved ! admitting is something man does, you are saying man has to do something to get saved..Works, Works and more Works...You are not of God ! You are under the curse of the law :sad

Wow, by your definition, making the decision for Christ is works. Therefore, the only way of salvation that you have left is by irresistible grace. Those who will be saved are saved and can't do anything about it. :roll

[Bakershalfdozen]

Faith and Repentance are part of the new creation, not the cause of it ! Duh..

Ok, buh-bye now.


Calvinists are one thing but rude Calvinists are quite another. :cool

[Madeline]

[JJJ4given]

jjj says



:puzzled:

You might want to quote the right person. I did not say that.

However, I will pray for you that you can leave these cultish calvinistic ideas behind and come to know the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal saviour. He can give you a much better understanding of the scriptures than John Calvin or any other man on this earth. But first you need to seek him while he may be found. Repent and believe on him now without delay. Leave behind all pride and malice and turn to him and he will give you grace and mercy.

God bless!

[Jerry]

Hm, Beloved, maybe you better just watch your choice of words. Calling someone a liar and a false teacher because they differ with you on the interpretation of a verse is a pretty serious slander. If I missed something on the verse, then chalk it up to going by memory and not looking up the passage earlier.

However, don't throw away the immediate context because the overall context might be dealing with something else. You are the one with the differing theology here, trying to fit everything into your Calvinistic mold (which, frankly, we have no interest in - I think you truly should take it elsewhere, perhaps to a board that promotes Calvinism - promoting it here, after warnings, will get you banned - and if you are truly here for fellowship, then you don't want that - consider this a warning).

[Jerry]

Looks like I was too slow... My last response was made before reading the last few posts. Well, beloved, enjoy your sojourn elsewhere...

[Samer]

Aw...I was hoping you'd get the honor of pressing the big red button, Jerry. :lol: