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LindaR

Is Repentance Necessary For Salvation?

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Job said "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:5,6).

Clearly this was much more radical than the "decisions" we are getting from our modern evangelistic methods.

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Repentance is the result of salvation not the cause ! Acts 2:

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The word for here means in view of the fact, in this case in view of the fact that God has forgiven you your sins ! for is the greek word eis:

1) into, unto, to, towards, for, among
++++
"For" (as used in Acts 2:38 "for the forgiveness...") could have two meanings. If you saw a poster saying "Jesse James wanted for robbery", "for" could mean Jesse is wanted so he can commit a robbery, or is wanted because he has committed a robbery. The later sense is the correct one. So too in this passage, the word "for" signifies an action in the past. Otherwise, it would violate the entire tenor of the NT teaching on salvation by grace and not by works.

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Repentance is the result of salvation not the cause ! Acts 2:

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The word for here means in view of the fact, in this case in view of the fact that God has forgiven you your sins ! for is the greek word eis:

1) into, unto, to, towards, for, among
++++
"For" (as used in Acts 2:38 "for the forgiveness...") could have two meanings. If you saw a poster saying "Jesse James wanted for robbery", "for" could mean Jesse is wanted so he can commit a robbery, or is wanted because he has committed a robbery. The later sense is the correct one. So too in this passage, the word "for" signifies an action in the past. Otherwise, it would violate the entire tenor of the NT teaching on salvation by grace and not by works.

Repentance is NOT works.

Way of Life Encyclopedia: Repentance

Repentance is a supernatural work of God whereby a responsive sinner, being convicted by the Holy Spirit of his rebellion, turns to God from his sinful ways and trusts Jesus Christ for salvation (2Ti 2:25; Joh 16:8; Ac 11:18; 26:20). Repentance means more than sorrow or regret or despair or grief. It is also more than mere confession or acknowledgement of sin. Pharaoh, Saul, and Judas did all of that but did not exercise Bible repentance (Ex 9:27; 1Sa 15:24; 24:17; 26:21; Mt 27:3-4). Bible repentance means a turning to God and a change of mind toward God that results in a change of life (Mt 3:1-2; Lu 5:32; 13:1-3; 18:13; Ac 2:38; 5:31; 17:30; 20:21; 26:20; 2Pe 3:9). There are two types of repentance: (1) Repentance for unbelievers for salvation (Lu 13:3; Ac 2:38). (2) repentance for believers from daily sin (Re 2:5,16,21-22)

From what... does one have to repent if one is already saved? What did Jesus mean in Luke 13:3 & 5?

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:3)

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:5)

The word "for" in Acts 2:38 does not mean "in view of the fact". Verse 38 needs to be taken into the context of what came before, in Acts 2:37:

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (Acts 2:37)

These people were not saved. Otherwise they would not have been "pricked in their heart" and asked "what shall we do"? Why would they have felt conviction if they were already saved? Don't put the cart before the horse.

Your description of the "Wanted poster" is a weak argument.

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Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (Acts 2:37)


Being pricked in the heart showed that the regeneration of the spirit had taken place in their heart, in fact it made manifest that they had been given a new heart.

The Holy Spirit had done a effectual work in their heart as jesus said would happen !

Jn 16 8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;


The word "for" in Acts 2:38 does not mean "in view of the fact".


Yes it does ! You change its meaning !

Repentance does means a change of mind, and it is obvious that the convicted jews had a change of mind !

God gives repentance as a result of the resurrection of christ, He gives it to the elect !

acts 5

30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour,[b] for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Also Israel is not the ethnic Jews but the Israel of God comprised of both jews and gentiles as in Gal 6

15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Paul made it clear that all of national Israel is not Israel !

Rom 9 6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


As far as

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:3)

This poses no problem at all , Jesus is basically saying, except you have newbirth [ a work of the sovereign spirit] you will perish !

It is quite obvious that the newbirth brings conviction of sin ! This is made clear in zech 12

10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

This is describing the outcome of a Sovereign work of the Spirit !

repentance and forgiveness is freely given to the elect !

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This is describing the outcome of a Sovereign work of the Spirit !

repentance and forgiveness is freely given to the elect !

Ah... finally the Calvinism is showing its colours. Thanks for clarifying where you are coming from.

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samer says


Conviction is not salvation.


Why do you ignore all the scripture I just showed you ?

Conviction of sin comes from a new heart given in regeneration ! Jesus pronounces them blessed who have it !

Matt 5

4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Again you are ignoring scripture, this mourning comes from a Sovereign act of God : zech 12

10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Now deal with scripture and not fables and tradition ! BTW This is describing salvation...

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Ah... finally the Calvinism is showing its colours. Thanks for clarifying where you are coming from.

So then, I guess repentance is only for the "elect"? BTW, regeneration IS being born again/saved. You don't get regenerated before you get regenerated/saved--that's a bit silly, wouldn't you say?

Here's the definition of conviction from Webster's 1828 Dictionary:
CONVICTION, n.

1. The act of proving, finding or determining to be guilty of an offense charged against a person before a legal tribunal; as by confession, by the verdict of a jury, or by the sentence of other tribunal, as in the summary convictions before commissioners of the revenue.

2. The act of convincing, or compelling one to admit the truth of a charge; the act of convincing of sin or sinfulness; the sate of being convinced or convicted by conscience; the state of being sensible of guilt; as, the convictions of a sinner may be temporary, or lasting and efficacious. By conviction, a sinner is brought to repentance. Men often sin against the conviction of their own consciences.

3. The act of convincing of error; confutation; the act of compelling one to acknowledge his error, or the truth of what is alledged; as, the conviction of a heretic may induce him to abandon his errors.

Samer is correct--conviction is NOT salvation, according to the above definition.

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So then, I guess repentance is only for the "elect"? BTW, regeneration IS being born again/saved. You don't get regenerated before you get regenerated/saved--that's a bit silly, wouldn't you say?

Here's the definition of conviction from Webster's 1828 Dictionary:
CONVICTION, n.

1. The act of proving, finding or determining to be guilty of an offense charged against a person before a legal tribunal; as by confession, by the verdict of a jury, or by the sentence of other tribunal, as in the summary convictions before commissioners of the revenue.

2. The act of convincing, or compelling one to admit the truth of a charge; the act of convincing of sin or sinfulness; the sate of being convinced or convicted by conscience; the state of being sensible of guilt; as, the convictions of a sinner may be temporary, or lasting and efficacious. By conviction, a sinner is brought to repentance. Men often sin against the conviction of their own consciences.

3. The act of convincing of error; confutation; the act of compelling one to acknowledge his error, or the truth of what is alledged; as, the conviction of a heretic may induce him to abandon his errors.

Samer is correct--conviction is NOT salvation, according to the above definition.


Why dont you deal with the scripture I provived ? Probaly because you can't..

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Job said "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:5,6).

Clearly this was much more radical than the "decisions" we are getting from our modern evangelistic methods.


Job was saved prior to this repentance !

job 1

1There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Only those regenerated, born again can bring forth the fruit of repentance.

Matt 7 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

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Why dont you deal with the scripture I provived ? Probaly because you can't..

It's not because I can't--it's because the scriptures you provided have nothing to do with biblical repentance. What you are trying to prove is that regeneration comes before salvation, which is backwards. Conviction and being "pricked in their heart" is not salvation.

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The true gospel is that one receives forgiveness of all sin, eternal life, and a certain future in heaven the moment we, in repentance, trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Cornelius and his friends had repented "unto life" (11:18), With this understanding we can see how saving faith is repentant faith. The word "repent" does not literally mean to turn around, it literally means "to change one's mind." Repentant faith is a change of mind toward God and sin where the Spirit of God grants one understanding of the wickedness of their sin and where one consequently trusts fully in Christ alone to save them from it. When one gets saved, they must not only repent of sin, but they must also repent or change theirs mind about their trust in works, baptism, false gods, or whatever else they have been trusting in for salvation. For example:

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead workss and of faith toward God, (Hebrews 6:1).

Consider also Acts 26:20:

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:20).

Here we can see that repentance is not a work, because it is contrasted with doing works. Repentance, however, as one gets saved when one repents, will always produce works because Christ will sanctify (set apart) the one He has justified (declared righteous) (cf. 2 Cor. 5:17). The Bible is very clear that saving faith is absolutely apart from works; consider Romans 4:5, which I quoted above, which contrasts working for salvation with believing God for it. Saving faith is simply trusting in God

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:goodpost:

Certainly, there is an element of turning involved, but "change of mind" is the literal definition. It's also expressed in Scripture as turning to God (that is, in the heart) from idols. The word "convert" also means to turn.

One can definitely not have true faith without humble repentance.

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Repetance is such a key factor in salvation, and mentioned so often throughout Scripture, that I fail to understand how some can read the Scriptures and miss this.

John, the answer to that is simple: WHEN you let your theology interpret the bible instead of letting the bible determine your theology.

Thus far, we can established that beloved57 holds to salvation being only for the elect, that repentance comes after regeneration and that Israel consists of Jews and the redeemed elect.

We can further establish that he will continue to debate Acts 2:37-38 but ignore all the other scripture that was already discussed. Not only that but he will now have us believe that conviction is equivalent to repentance ignoring the scriptures that show us that there have been people who were convicted in the same book of Acts but didn't get converted until either much later or rejected it altogether.

Paul fought the conviction and kicked against the prickings of his conscience but was not converted until confronted at the Damascus, while Festus trembled at the preaching but never showed any sign of a turning to God for salvation. The Calvinist would have to overturn all these scriptures because it is unthinkable under that system of theology that a human being could resist the conviction and defy "irresistible grace".

I believe in "Amazing Grace" that can save a wretched sinner including a murderer like Paul from the guttermost to the uttermost, but I do not hold to "irresistible grace". Paul resisted for a long time until he was on the Damascus road.

beloved57, I may be missing something here but in your first introductory post you said that "it is a priviledge to share the testimony of Christ". From there I understand about where you lived and where you went to college but I'm hoping that you will be able to share with us your testimony of salvation as it will be a great blessing.

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"Just now some professedly Christian teachers are misleading many by saying that

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jesse says


Thus far, we can established that beloved57 holds to salvation being only for the elect, that repentance comes after regeneration and that Israel consists of Jews and the redeemed elect.


Yes, That seems to be what paul thought too ! Salvation was for the elect !

2 tim 2 10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

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John, the answer to that is simple: WHEN you let your theology interpret the bible instead of letting the bible determine your theology.

Thus far, we can established that beloved57 holds to salvation being only for the elect, that repentance comes after regeneration and that Israel consists of Jews and the redeemed elect.

We can further establish that he will continue to debate Acts 2:37-38 but ignore all the other scripture that was already discussed. Not only that but he will now have us believe that conviction is equivalent to repentance ignoring the scriptures that show us that there have been people who were convicted in the same book of Acts but didn't get converted until either much later or rejected it altogether.

Paul fought the conviction and kicked against the prickings of his conscience but was not converted until confronted at the Damascus, while Festus trembled at the preaching but never showed any sign of a turning to God for salvation. The Calvinist would have to overturn all these scriptures because it is unthinkable under that system of theology that a human being could resist the conviction and defy "irresistible grace".

I believe in "Amazing Grace" that can save a wretched sinner including a murderer like Paul from the guttermost to the uttermost, but I do not hold to "irresistible grace". Paul resisted for a long time until he was on the Damascus road.

beloved57, I may be missing something here but in your first introductory post you said that "it is a priviledge to share the testimony of Christ". From there I understand about where you lived and where you went to college but I'm hoping that you will be able to share with us your testimony of salvation as it will be a great blessing.


Many resist the outward testimony of scripture because it is only external, but the inward irresitable call is when one is regenerated by the effectual power of God. Paul was # 1 Born again on the road to damascus 1cor 15

8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Now , anyone knowing scripture understands that one is born exactly on the day and hour predetermined by God !

ecc 3 2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

ps 31

15My times are in thy hand: deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.


Also paul testifies that in due season God converted Him gal 1

15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

You believe God was trying to convert paul before his appointed time, how silly...lol !

When it was time for paul to be converted, God exerted His power and worked effectually as He does with all His elect..

eph 7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

All of Gods people are made willing in the day of His power !

ps 110

3Thy people [ The elect]shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

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madelin says


The true gospel is that one receives forgiveness of all sin, eternal life, and a certain future in heaven the moment we, in repentance, trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Cornelius and his friends had repented "unto life" (11:18), With this understanding we can see how saving faith is repentant faith. The word "repent" does not literally mean to turn around, it literally means "to change one's mind." Repentant faith is a change of mind toward God and sin where the Spirit of God grants one understanding of the wickedness of their sin and where one consequently trusts fully in Christ alone to save them from it. When one gets saved, they must not only repent of sin, but they must also repent or change theirs mind about their trust in works, baptism, false gods, or whatever else they have been trusting in for salvation.


This is an excellent example of works salvation, it is not of God and it is not the gospel.

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From A.W.Tozer: The Root of Righteousness, Chapter 11: No Regeneration Without Reformation, pg. 45


"I think there is little doubt that the teaching of salvation without repentance has lowered the moral standards of the Church and produced a multitude of deceived religious professors who erroneously believe themselves to be saved when in fact they are still in the gall of bitterness and the bond of iniquity."


To me, that means that there is NO salvation without repentance. A.W.Tozer is saying that regeneration IS salvation and repentance must precede regeneration and repentance produces fruit and a desire to serve God.

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madelin says



This is an excellent example of works salvation, it is not of God and it is not the gospel.



Here we can see that repentance is not a work, because it is contrasted with doing works. Repentance, however, as one gets saved when one repents, will always produce works because Christ will sanctify (set apart) the one He has justified (declared righteous) (cf. 2 Cor. 5:17). The Bible is very clear that saving faith is absolutely apart from works; consider Romans 4:5, which I quoted above, which contrasts working for salvation with believing God for it. Saving faith is simply trusting in God

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Repentance is certainly a change of mind resulting in a change of conduct. This is a definition based on word usage as used in the Bible. There is nowhere in Scripture where someone repented without a corresponding change in conduct.

The Lord Would Not Repent

The definition of repentance is the same whether referring to man or God. God changes His mind and therefore His conduct based on man's changing conduct - ie. treats the righteous one way and the wicked another way, and if a righteous man becomes wicked or a wicked man turns from his sin, then the Lord's conduct toward them changes correspondingly.

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