Augustine

[Psalms18_28]

Who is he? people keep bringing up his writing on genesis.

[Madeline]

I can honestly say that I have never heard of this person until now, and I haven't done any extensive research on this individual. I dug this up on the web.

In "The Literal Interpretation of Genesis" Augustine took the view that everything in the universe was created simultaneously by God, and not in seven calendar days like a plain account of Genesis would require. He argues that the six-day structure of creation presented in the book of Genesis represents a logical framework, rather than the passage of time in a physical way - it would bear a spiritual, rather than physical, meaning, which is no less literal. Augustine also doesn?t envisage original sin as originating structural changes in the universe, and even suggests that the bodies of Adam and Eve were already created mortal before the Fall. Apart from his specific views, Augustine recognizes that the interpretation of the creation story is difficult, and remarks that we should be willing to change our mind about it as new information comes up.

St. Augustine

Love,
Madeline

[Jerry]

Augustine is a heretic. He was the "father" of the Catholic church - and it was his writings that Calvin developed Calvinism from.

[Samer]

What Jerry said. Augustine also had a lot of strange ideas about sex, and the use of physical force in making proselytes and fighting heretics.

[Guest Guest]

What Jerry said. Augustine also had a lot of strange ideas about sex' date=' and the use of physical force in making proselytes and fighting heretics.[/quote']

Is that a fact? The burden of proof falls upon you my friend. St. Augustine enforced beliefs on the Trinity, and other basic Christians doctrines....You're welcome. :thumb

In Pax Christi
Andrew

[Samer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo

His writings helped formulate the theory of the just war. He also advocated the use of force against the Donatists, asking "Why ... should not the Church use force in compelling her lost sons to return, if the lost sons compelled others to their destruction?" (The Correction of the Donatists, 22?24)

"Lustful sex is the enemy of God" (Luxuria est inimica Dei.)

http://fs.uno.edu/asoble/pages/cog14.htm

It seems Augustine did not believe Adam and Eve had sexual pleasures toward each other, or that husbands and wives should enjoy such things, but that it should only be for procreation, and that to enjoy it is sin. See also his work On the Good of Marriage.

Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. (Hebrews 13:4)

See also the Song of Solomon!

I believe Augustine's views on the use of force and the sinfulness of sex inspired the inquisitions and priestly celibacy.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (1 Timothy 4:1-3)

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38-39)

Yes, I do believe his beliefs were strange.

[John81]

It's no wonder new and imporperly discipled Christians have such a difficult time growing in the Lord.

So many Christian pastors, church and authors quote from Augustine, Calvin, various "church fathers" and others who had some very twisted and outright unbiblical views.

While it's true that some good might be gleaned from the overall mess, there are far, far better sources of goodness. When one seems to approve of Augustine by quoting them, that indicates to many folks that it might be a good idea to read more from Augustine. In doing so, they encounter many unbiblical ideas and are either left in confusion or lead down a wrong road.

Why some folks quote from people they would likely disagree with on over half of their writings is beyond me!

Better to quote from biblically sound men of God if one feels the need to quote someone.

[Psalms18_28]

It's no wonder new and imporperly discipled Christians have such a difficult time growing in the Lord.

So many Christian pastors, church and authors quote from Augustine, Calvin, various "church fathers" and others who had some very twisted and outright unbiblical views.

While it's true that some good might be gleaned from the overall mess, there are far, far better sources of goodness. When one seems to approve of Augustine by quoting them, that indicates to many folks that it might be a good idea to read more from Augustine. In doing so, they encounter many unbiblical ideas and are either left in confusion or lead down a wrong road.

Why some folks quote from people they would likely disagree with on over half of their writings is beyond me!

Better to quote from biblically sound men of God if one feels the need to quote someone.

I agree with you. I think they do it because they think that's how Christians were back then so christians today are wrong. Kinda like how they keep seeking the oldest manuscript for today modern version.

[Guest Guest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo




http://fs.uno.edu/asoble/pages/cog14.htm

It seems Augustine did not believe Adam and Eve had sexual pleasures toward each other, or that husbands and wives should enjoy such things, but that it should only be for procreation, and that to enjoy it is sin. See also his work On the Good of Marriage.

Christ himself says: Matt. 5:28 - Jesus teaches that just looking lustfully at a woman is adultery. But avoiding this involves an inner change, a response to God's grace.

Are you saying Jesus, Our Lord, is wrong? I don't see Augustine anywhere saying that people shouldn't enjoy sex. He is saying that it is wrong to lust after someone for sex. This is in complete concurrence with the bible.

Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. (Hebrews 13:4)

See also the Song of Solomon!

I believe Augustine's views on the use of force and the sinfulness of sex inspired the inquisitions and priestly celibacy.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (1 Timothy 4:1-3)

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38-39)

The Inquisition was certainly wrong, no one will deny that. However, the burden of proof is on you to show me a Magisterial document or Papal document telling the faithful to kill Protestants. It was renegade priests and laymen that instigated the Inquisition, thus it was their fault for it. I pray that God punished them for their crimes. It is never justifiable to kill someone over religion or heresy.

On to celibacy. Jesus must have sinned then, by not being married, according to your logic. In fact, Jesus himself permitted it: Matt. 19:11-12 - Jesus says celibacy is a gift from God and whoever can bear it should bear it. Jesus praises and recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church. Because celibacy is a gift from God, those who criticize the Church's practice of celibacy are criticizing God and this wonderful gift He bestows on His chosen ones.

See other verses:
1 Tim. 4:3 - in this verse, Paul refers to deceitful doctrines that forbid marriage. Many non-Catholics also use this verse to impugn the Church's practice of celibacy. This is entirely misguided because the Catholic Church (unlike many Protestant churches) exalts marriage to a sacrament. In fact, marriage is elevated to a sacrament, but consecrated virginity is not. The Church declares marriage sacred, covenantal and lifegiving. Paul is referring to doctrines that forbid marriage and other goods when done outside the teaching of Christ and for a lessor good. Celibacy is an act of giving up one good (marriage and children) for a greater good (complete spiritual union with God).

1 Tim. 5:9-12 - Paul recommends that older widows take a pledge of celibacy. This was the beginning of women religious orders.

Isaiah 56:3-7 - the eunuchs who keep God's covenant will have a special place in the kingdom of heaven.

Jer. 16:1-4 - Jeremiah is told by God not to take a wife or have children.

Yes, I do believe his beliefs were strange.

You are entitled to your opinion, no one can deny you that.

May the Peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ be with you always,
Andrew

[lettheredeemedsayso]

There have been many people that have written about the Bible. They are no different that you and I.