Can divorce be a pastor or deacon?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (1Ti 3:4)

I believe children are also a prerequisite.

I believe Paul was stressing a pastor needed to be a parent.

[HappyChristian]

There are a lot of people who believe that it is a requirement for a man to be married to be a pastor, or that he must have children, but I don't think the reading in 1 Tim 3 means without them both the man cannot pastor. A widowed pastor needs to step down? Nah. That just isn't there in the reading, nor anywhere else in scripture.

The indication there is that if he IS married, then he MUST be a one-woman man (literal from the Greek text). Not every married couple is blessed with children, and to state that having children is a pre-requisite is really not accurate.

IF a man is married, he must be a one-woman man. IF a man has children, he must manage his family right. Paul was not married. There is no indication that Timothy was married. If God required marriage & children, then both Paul and Timothy were in sin.

[John81]

There are a lot of people who believe that it is a requirement for a man to be married to be a pastor, or that he must have children, but I don't think the reading in 1 Tim 3 means without them both the man cannot pastor. A widowed pastor needs to step down? Nah. That just isn't there in the reading, nor anywhere else in scripture.

The indication there is that if he IS married, then he MUST be a one-woman man (literal from the Greek text). Not every married couple is blessed with children, and to state that having children is a pre-requisite is really not accurate.

IF a man is married, he must be a one-woman man. IF a man has children, he must manage his family right. Paul was not married. There is no indication that Timothy was married. If God required marriage & children, then both Paul and Timothy were in sin.

Amen!

(BTW, good to have you posting with us again!)

[HappyChristian]

Thanks,John. It's good to be here. I'm still in WA for almost another week, and don't always have access to the computer.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Paul didn't say "if... then...". He said the bishop "MUST BE..." present tense. To say it means "If...then..." is reading into Scripture what isn't there.

The bishop/overseer/pastor MUST BE the husband of one wife; i.e., married.

The bishop/overseer/pastor MUST have his children in subjection; i.e, must be a parent.

Also, Paul is clear that the pastor is to have his children in subjection. No "if... then..." there either

By the way, Paul is never identified as a pastor in Scripture. So the statement that Paul was not married doesn't float.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Standing Firm In Christ

[HappyChristian]

Matthew 19:12 Jesus said there were eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven: and He didn't reprove for that. Paul said (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) that it's better to remain single to serve the Lord better. And then later contradicts both Jesus and himself when he states unequivocally that pastors are to be married? I don't think so. Scripture needs to dovetail...and the 2 do not agree with your assertion. (and following your logic of a widowed pastor stepping down, if a pastor's only child dies, he'd have to step down because he'd then be childless)

Marriage and children add a stability to the pastor - but it isn't a prerequisite. Rather, if they are married, and if God blesses them with children (and not all are...),then they must be faithful to their wife, and manage their house well.

An since Paul was in a very real way a pastor to the pastors, yes, his marital state would matter. And not only is there no indication that Timothy was married (OR had children), there is no indication that Titus was either...

[Brother Rick]

The title of this thread always makes me cock my head to the left like a dog looking at a new fence. Can anyone fix the title, please? Hahaha.....

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Matthew 19:12 Jesus said there were eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven: and He didn't reprove for that. Paul said (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) that it's better to remain single to serve the Lord better. And then later contradicts both Jesus and himself when he states unequivocally that pastors are to be married? I don't think so. Scripture needs to dovetail...and the 2 do not agree with your assertion. (and following your logic of a widowed pastor stepping down, if a pastor's only child dies, he'd have to step down because he'd then be childless)

Marriage and children add a stability to the pastor - but it isn't a prerequisite. Rather, if they are married, and if God blesses them with children (and not all are...),then they must be faithful to their wife, and manage their house well.

An since Paul was in a very real way a pastor to the pastors, yes, his marital state would matter. And not only is there no indication that Timothy was married (OR had children), there is no indication that Titus was either...

Paul said the bishop MUST BE married. That does not mean should be married, nor does it mean can be married. The bishop MUST BE married.

Pastors MUST BE married.

Using Paul's statement about remaining single has no bearing on the leadership role of Pastor. The Bishop must then be the husband of one wife. MUST BE... Paul did not say IF, ... THEN,... No, he said MUST BE. Edited October 17, 2011 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Eunuchs does not mean pastor. One can do great service for the Kingdom of God and not be a Pastor. Misssionary, Evangelist, Teacher, etc.. But Pastors and Deacons MUST BE married.

MUST BE (present tense)

[HappyChristian]

There is no scripture indicating Timothy was married. None. Nor that he had children. Perhaps he did later, but at the time of his being appointed as bishop of the church he pastored, there is no indication of either. He is a very pertinent example you have ignored. Paul's marital status is important: if he's teaching that pastors have no choice but the marry and they have to have children or they cannot pastor, he has to be an example. He was virtually a pastor to pastors. He would have to follow the same qualifications.

Scripture has to dovetail, therefore Paul's assertion that single people can serve God more wholeheartedly most definitely applies. It is illogocal to think that Paul is telling people that lay people can serve God better single but pastors can't. Time and dedication are part of both lives...

Now, who said eunuchs meant pastors? I simply pointed out that Christ Himself said some would remain single for the Kingdom of God I didn't say it meant that He was speaking of pastors. Again, though, it is illogical to think He meant that only lay people could remain single but all pastors had no choice but to marry. Scripture dovetails with scripture, else we are following man-made rules.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If Timothy was a Pastor, Timothy was married. Must be does not mean should be. Nor does it mean can be. Must be means exactly what it says... MUST BE.

It is illogical to think when Paul said MUST BE that he meant doesn't have to be.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Standing Firm In Christ

[HappyChristian]

Sorry, Standing, you are not matching scripture with scripture. Timothy was a pastor...and there is no indication that he was married- your assertion notwithstanding.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

What does MUST BE mean?

Are you telling me that when Isaiah wrote precept must be upon precept, that he really meant it didn't have to be?

When Jesus said,

But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it mustbe?

He really meant He didn't have to be crucified?

When Jesus said, the Scriptures must be fulfilled, He didn't really mean Scriptures must be fulfilled?

Throughout the New Testament, (and Old) the term MUST BE meant exactly that... MUST BE. But Paul was wrong?

I think not.

Young Timothy had to have been married or he did not qualify to be a young Bishop/Overseer/Pastor. He had to have children or he did not meet the qualifications set forth for those who could Pastor a flock.

MUST BE means MUST BE.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Brother Rick]

A man must have kids to be a pastor, did you say that?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I echoed it. Paul said it.