John Piper

[Jerry]

I do not know enough about Piper's theology to know what he thinks about how to be saved. From what I can gather, his theology is off, especially on the calvinism issue. That in itself doesn't necessarily make him lost or that he is following some false god - though I think some of what he does believe about God is also off.

[DaveW]

Not to suggest that Piper, or even all other Calvanists hold to this extreme, but full on Calvanism says that Salvation is based upon God's choice alone, and the death and resurrection of Christ is not the basis for salvation merely it's mechanism.

One who holds to that extreme is not trusting in the blood for salvation but the choice of God.

Decide for yourself if that consititutes Biblical Salvation.

And to make it quite plain once again so I am not misunderstood - NOT ALL CALVANISTS WOULD GO TO THIS EXTREME, and in fact most I have met would fall short of this definition.

Please don't atack me over this, or dispute with me - I have met some who hold to this extreme definition, but most do not. If you are one who does not then great for you. If you are, then there should be no argument anyway. :wink

[heartstrings]

You bet, two sentences cleared everything up... :roll

You say repeatedly that God is love, God is love, God is love. Where do you talk about His justness, His righteous anger, His condemnation? God is love, but He is also just, you cannot separate the two.

God is love.
God is jealous, God gets angry, God is always righteous and always just.
God condemns..
But God forgives
God showed His righteous anger and justice and His infinite love when He bled and died in horrible shame on the cross for the whole world.....every sin and every sinner. His love is all encompassing, all sufficent, infinite. He has more than enough.
We all deserve Hell. The most wicked thing is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ and His free pardon of sin. If we do that, we get the judgement and the condemnation. It's our choice.
God opened the way for everyone to be saved.


Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. God's justice and God's love.


Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. God's condemnation


Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

[war_eagle]

I don't want to open up an old wound after eighteen months, but I just noticed that you apologized to me and couldn't remember if I acknowledged it or not. If I didn't, then I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. If I did, then please excuse my terrible memory.

In any case, apology accepted. I know that I've been guilty of the same thing. It's very easy to forget that you're talking to a real person when you post on a message board. Maybe we should tape pictures of our loved ones to the computer monitor and pretend we're talking to them when we make these posts. Maybe we'd all choose our words more carefully then.

[Wilchbla]

Most of the youth at my church are huge fans of John Piper and there's going to be a conference with him at my church this week. I wanted to check this guy out' date=' but I missed the registration (and it costs $30 btw, and no live streaming for those who didn't pay and come), so I want to know what you guys know about him and can say about him. I'm a little wary of the fact that he's like a celebrity at our church, so I dunno. Other than him being a Calvinist, what else is good or bad about his teachings and him himself?[/quote']

Calvinist. He calls himself a "Christian Hedonist" which is a fancy way of saying he loves the world. I actually have an account on a particular website that is huge on him and almost got the boot off it my first day.

[heartstrings]

Here's a quote from John Piper's website, on the subject of "Christian Hedonism"

God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him.

John Piper basically explains "Christian Hedonism" as the practice of putting your delight in God...instead of the world; obtaining your pleasure from God, instead of worldly things. This is not a bad concept, really, as long as you are delighting in the God of [bible]John 3:16[/bible] and of[bible]2 Peter 3:9[/bible] We should delight in the God of the Bible. But who, I ask, is the God John Piper says he seeks to glorify? You can delight in and glorify Allah if you want to: a great many do.. People delighted in and glorified Baal, and they delighted in Molech enough to sacrifice their children to him. So if one is glorifying another Jesus, as many do, how can he be delighting and glorifying the real one?

The God of the Bible gave Himself to die and shed His precious blood for the whole world. Piper's god died only for the few he selected.
God's will is that none should perish. But Piper's god's will is that some should go to Hell for His glory.
And God's will is that all should come to repentence. That is not the will of Piper's god.

When you misrepresent God and His word, you are slandering God's character. And you aren't talking about the God of the Bible, when you attribute things to Him that He has nothing to do with...
I think Piper preaches another Jesus.[bible]2 Corinthians 11:4[/bible]

[Wilchbla]

Here's a quote from John Piper's website' date=' on the subject of "Christian Hedonism"
John Piper basically explains "Christian Hedonism" as the practice of putting your delight in God...instead of the world; obtaining your pleasure from God, instead of worldly things. This is not a bad concept, really, as long as you are delighting in the God of [bible]John 3:16[/bible] and of[bible]2 Peter 3:9[/bible] We should delight in the God of the Bible. But who, I ask, is the God John Piper says he seeks to glorify? You can delight in and glorify Allah if you want to: a great many do.. People delighted in and glorified Baal, and they delighted in Molech enough to sacrifice their children to him. So if one is glorifying another Jesus, as many do, how can he be delighting and glorifying the real one?

The God of the Bible gave Himself to die and shed His precious blood for the whole world. Piper's god died only for the few he selected.
God's will is that none should perish. But Piper's god's will is that some should go to Hell for His glory.
And God's will is that all should come to repentence. That is not the will of Piper's god.

When you misrepresent God and His word, you are slandering God's character. And you aren't talking about the God of the Bible, when you attribute things to Him that He has nothing to do with...
I think Piper preaches another Jesus.[bible]2 Corinthians 11:4[/bible]

Yes, but have you seen the way "delighting in God" is manifested? Maybe I've falsely accused this man but I had a really bad experience on that particular website where the man is treated above criticism and never questioned.

[heartstrings]

How does he manifest it?