Members Dr. Robert S. Morley Posted May 21, 2023 Members Posted May 21, 2023 29 minutes ago, BrotherTony said: Sorry, but I'm going to need sources other than yourself. We already know your bias here. Thanks for your cooperation. Hi Tony, John interprets his use of Gog and Magog here: "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" (Rev. 20:8). In an article in the Christian Courier, Gog and Magog — What Is the Meaning of Revelation 20:8?, Wayne Jackson writes: "The 1,000 years symbolically represent an era of full victory for Christian people . . . In the Apocalypse, John borrows this imagery [of Gog and Magog] from the former prophet and applies it to what some scholars believe is a projected final assault against the truth at some point before the return of Christ. When this might occur is unknown — perhaps in close proximity to the Judgment Day." I hope this helps as another source. God bless. Quote
Members BrotherTony Posted May 21, 2023 Members Posted May 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said: Hi Tony, John interprets his use of Gog and Magog here: "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" (Rev. 20:8). In an article in the Christian Courier, Gog and Magog — What Is the Meaning of Revelation 20:8?, Wayne Jackson writes: "The 1,000 years symbolically represent an era of full victory for Christian people . . . In the Apocalypse, John borrows this imagery [of Gog and Magog] from the former prophet and applies it to what some scholars believe is a projected final assault against the truth at some point before the return of Christ. When this might occur is unknown — perhaps in close proximity to the Judgment Day." I hope this helps as another source. God bless. Thank you for the response. I'll have to check the source out. Most here hold to the dispensationalist viewpoint. I'm sure you are aware of that by now. But, it never hurts to have another's point of view out there. Dr. Robert S. Morley 1 Quote
Members SureWord Posted May 21, 2023 Members Posted May 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said: Hi Tony, John interprets his use of Gog and Magog here: "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" (Rev. 20:8). In an article in the Christian Courier, Gog and Magog — What Is the Meaning of Revelation 20:8?, Wayne Jackson writes: "The 1,000 years symbolically represent an era of full victory for Christian people . . . In the Apocalypse, John borrows this imagery [of Gog and Magog] from the former prophet and applies it to what some scholars believe is a projected final assault against the truth at some point before the return of Christ. When this might occur is unknown — perhaps in close proximity to the Judgment Day." I hope this helps as another source. God bless. 1000 years represents an era of full victory for Christians? When was or where is this full victory? The majority of the world is not Christian nor has it ever been. Where's the victory in China, India or the Middle East? Quote
Members BrotherTony Posted May 21, 2023 Members Posted May 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, SureWord said: 1000 years represents an era of full victory for Christians? When was or where is this full victory? The majority of the world is not Christian nor has it ever been. Where's the victory in China, India or the Middle East? Those who hold to an amillinialist position don't usually explain this well. Quote
Members Dr. Robert S. Morley Posted May 22, 2023 Members Posted May 22, 2023 7 hours ago, SureWord said: 1000 represents an era of full victory for Christians? When was or where is this full victory? The majority of the world is not Christian nor has it ever been. Where's the victory in China, India or the Middle East? The 1000-year reign is not for the world, but for all who become part of Christ's church in this world, who reign with Him in peace, as a kingdom of priests on earth. Paul teaches that God "hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:6). In the middle of a world full of conflict, Jesus said to His disciples, "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid" (John 14:27). This promise is true for all in His church until His return. Jesus has brought His church into a kingdom of peace. "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost" (Rom. 14:17). Of this reign and peace, Paul says, "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom. 8:35-39). The epistles to the churches proclaim this peace from God that is theirs in each greeting. For example, "Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 1:3). We have 24/7 access to this peace. Paul instructed the church in Philipi, "Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus" (Php. 4:6-7). The passage of God's armor speaks of this message of peace where it says, "And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace" (Eph. 6:15). For this reign of peace is for all who come to Christ in a world that knows no peace. Satan is unable to prevent the power of the gospel from bringing peace to anyone who believes. Quote
Members Dr. Robert S. Morley Posted May 22, 2023 Members Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, BrotherTony said: Those who hold to an amillinialist position don't usually explain this well. Here's my attempt, Tony. I hope it helps, even if you disagree. From my book, Dismantling Dispensationalism (verses have been changed to KJV Amillennialism is the belief that the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 is to be understood figuratively rather than literally. The 1,000 years is the Church age in which the saints reign spiritually as a kingdom of priests with Christ. I would like to show how the amillennial view is the natural result of interpreting Revelation in its genre. As I do this, it will also become clear that the amillennial view is perfectly congruent with the rest of the New Testament. What will also become clear is that, unfortunately, many have been robbed of the blessing of understanding the meaning of the 1,000 years, which was given to the Church for her encouragement as she engages this world. They Will Reign With Him for a Thousand Years ‘Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years’ (Rev. 20:6). Interpretation: ‘the first resurrection’ – consider that ‘...God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ...’ (Eph. 2:4-5). Also, that Jesus said “...I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die...” (John 11:25-26). ‘[on such the second death hath no power]’ – consider that as a result of Adam’s transgression, a spiritual death came upon all humanity in which we became ‘dead in our sins,’ but that believers have been raised to life to ‘never die’ again. ‘[they shall be priests of God and of Christ]’ – consider that Revelation began with the statement, ‘Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father...’ (Rev. 1:5-6). This clearly speaks of the role of all who are in Christ’s Church. After all, concerning our priestly work, Scripture speaks of ‘...God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation’ (2 Cor. 5:18). ‘[and shall reign with him]’ – this speaks of the Church age where its members reign with Christ by way of their priestly role. Remember, Jesus [said, ‘All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth]’ (Matt. 28:18) and we 'sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus’ (Eph. 2:6)]. Furthermore, concerning the reality of Christ’s priestly kingdom in this world, Revelation begins with ‘I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom’ (Rev. 1:9). ‘[a thousand years]’ – this, therefore, is the period that the Church reigns with Christ as a kingdom of priests. The Case for Amillennialism Amillennialism means there is no literal 1,000 years. This interpretation is derived from recognizing the use of figurative language throughout Revelation, including how numbers have numerological meaning. As stated before, in “Numerology in Revelation” (see Appendix), I argue that numbers should be considered figuratively if: - the literature is apocalyptic (a genre that uses symbolism and allegory); - there is clear use of numerology; - numerology is used at the outset; - numbers associated with Biblical numerology are used; - numbers associated with Biblical numerology are used throughout; - only numbers associated with Biblical numerology are used throughout; - credible Biblical meaning is consistently the outcome when interpreting numbers as symbols; - multiple cases exist, making chance unfeasible. Revelation ticks all of the above; therefore, it is imperative that we interpret the figurative meaning of the numbers in Revelation rather than their literal meaning. I previously showed how the number 144,000 in Revelation is a numerological construct of the numbers 12, 2, 10 and 3 and explained that these numbers held symbolic meaning in Judaism and in the early Church. Therefore, by interpreting each of their meanings together, the meaning of the 144,000 could be determined. Similarly, the number 1,000 would have been recognized as a numerological construct of the numbers 10 and 3, where both their meanings contributed to understanding the number 1,000. 1,000 Years 10 x 10 x 10 = 1,000 10[cubed] = 1,000 Meaning: 10 = quantitative fullness 3 = God (Trinity) 1,000 years is to be interpreted therefore as the full quantity (10) of time given by God (3) for the Church to reign with Christ as a priestly kingdom, doing the work of reconciliation. During this time, Satan is ‘bound’ by Jesus ‘that he should deceive the nations no more.’ This symbolically means that Satan’s sway over the souls of men is restricted, so that he cannot prevent those who are being saved through the gospel. ‘And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.’ (Rev. 20:7-10). Conclusion In short, the 1,000 years is symbolic of the period beginning at the Church’s inception and commissioning, under Jesus Christ, until the end of the Church age. It is a time given for the salvation of mankind in which the Church operates as a kingdom of priests. When this period of salvation is over, Satan will be released and quickly destroyed along with all who follow him. Edited May 22, 2023 by Dr. Robert S. Morley Added: (verses have been changed to KJV), cubed Quote
Members BrotherTony Posted May 22, 2023 Members Posted May 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said: Here's my attempt, Tony. I hope it helps, even if you disagree. From my book, Dismantling Dispensationalism (verses have been changed to KJV Amillennialism is the belief that the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 is to be understood figuratively rather than literally. The 1,000 years is the Church age in which the saints reign spiritually as a kingdom of priests with Christ. I would like to show how the amillennial view is the natural result of interpreting Revelation in its genre. As I do this, it will also become clear that the amillennial view is perfectly congruent with the rest of the New Testament. What will also become clear is that, unfortunately, many have been robbed of the blessing of understanding the meaning of the 1,000 years, which was given to the Church for her encouragement as she engages this world. They Will Reign With Him for a Thousand Years ‘Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years’ (Rev. 20:6). Interpretation: ‘the first resurrection’ – consider that ‘...God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ...’ (Eph. 2:4-5). Also, that Jesus said “...I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die...” (John 11:25-26). ‘[on such the second death hath no power]’ – consider that as a result of Adam’s transgression, a spiritual death came upon all humanity in which we became ‘dead in our sins,’ but that believers have been raised to life to ‘never die’ again. ‘[they shall be priests of God and of Christ]’ – consider that Revelation began with the statement, ‘Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father...’ (Rev. 1:5-6). This clearly speaks of the role of all who are in Christ’s Church. After all, concerning our priestly work, Scripture speaks of ‘...God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation’ (2 Cor. 5:18). ‘[and shall reign with him]’ – this speaks of the Church age where its members reign with Christ by way of their priestly role. Remember, Jesus [said, ‘All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth]’ (Matt. 28:18) and we 'sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus’ (Eph. 2:6)]. Furthermore, concerning the reality of Christ’s priestly kingdom in this world, Revelation begins with ‘I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom’ (Rev. 1:9). ‘[a thousand years]’ – this, therefore, is the period that the Church reigns with Christ as a kingdom of priests. The Case for Amillennialism Amillennialism means there is no literal 1,000 years. This interpretation is derived from recognizing the use of figurative language throughout Revelation, including how numbers have numerological meaning. As stated before, in “Numerology in Revelation” (see Appendix), I argue that numbers should be considered figuratively if: - the literature is apocalyptic (a genre that uses symbolism and allegory); - there is clear use of numerology; - numerology is used at the outset; - numbers associated with Biblical numerology are used; - numbers associated with Biblical numerology are used throughout; - only numbers associated with Biblical numerology are used throughout; - credible Biblical meaning is consistently the outcome when interpreting numbers as symbols; - multiple cases exist, making chance unfeasible. Revelation ticks all of the above; therefore, it is imperative that we interpret the figurative meaning of the numbers in Revelation rather than their literal meaning. I previously showed how the number 144,000 in Revelation is a numerological construct of the numbers 12, 2, 10 and 3 and explained that these numbers held symbolic meaning in Judaism and in the early Church. Therefore, by interpreting each of their meanings together, the meaning of the 144,000 could be determined. Similarly, the number 1,000 would have been recognized as a numerological construct of the numbers 10 and 3, where both their meanings contributed to understanding the number 1,000. 1,000 Years 10 x 10 x 10 = 1,000 10[cubed] = 1,000 Meaning: 10 = quantitative fullness 3 = God (Trinity) 1,000 years is to be interpreted therefore as the full quantity (10) of time given by God (3) for the Church to reign with Christ as a priestly kingdom, doing the work of reconciliation. During this time, Satan is ‘bound’ by Jesus ‘that he should deceive the nations no more.’ This symbolically means that Satan’s sway over the souls of men is restricted, so that he cannot prevent those who are being saved through the gospel. ‘And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.’ (Rev. 20:7-10). Conclusion In short, the 1,000 years is symbolic of the period beginning at the Church’s inception and commissioning, under Jesus Christ, until the end of the Church age. It is a time given for the salvation of mankind in which the Church operates as a kingdom of priests. When this period of salvation is over, Satan will be released and quickly destroyed along with all who follow him. Robert, I did read your reply, but as I have told you in the past, I am looking for credible, known sources. This is not to detract from your opinion, but, we are already pretty well versed on where you stand when it comes to many of the Biblical positions folks on this forum hold to. I've stated before that when a person has to post long diatribes from their own books instead of outside sources, it makes it nearly impossible for me to take them seriously. This is just where I stand, and I can only speak for myself. Quote
Members Dr. Robert S. Morley Posted May 22, 2023 Members Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, BrotherTony said: Robert, I did read your reply, but as I have told you in the past, I am looking for credible, known sources. This is not to detract from your opinion, but, we are already pretty well versed on where you stand when it comes to many of the Biblical positions folks on this forum hold to. I've stated before that when a person has to post long diatribes from their own books instead of outside sources, it makes it nearly impossible for me to take them seriously. This is just where I stand, and I can only speak for myself. I'm not sure calling my work a "diatribe" is fair, Tony. I post quotations from my books and blog posts because they contain already constructed thoughts on some of these topics. Like the "noble" Bereans who "searched the scriptures daily, whether those things [that Paul taught] were so," it's imperative people test my teaching against the Bible. Here are some outside sources you might appreciate: The Baptist Messenger has an article, AMILLENIALISM & REVELATION. George Baptist Church, Why every Christian should (at least) consider the Amillennial view. For something more thorough, you might like to consider the Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary series. It begins with, Amillennialism and the Age to Come—A Critical Review # 1. God bless Edited May 22, 2023 by Dr. Robert S. Morley Added a period. Quote
Members Joe Chandler Posted May 22, 2023 Members Posted May 22, 2023 On 12/17/2011 at 7:10 PM, Invicta said: I am not sure what arms shall stand on his part, means, but it clearly refers to the Romans, who were "they" who later poluted the sanctuary, and placed the abomination that maketh desolate. Is there room for a dual fulfillment of prophecy here? In 2Thes 2, Paul makes reference to the abomination that maketh desolate. so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. The context is given in the first verses of this chapter. 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Just at the prophets and the disciples thought there was one coming of Christ. Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? BrotherTony 1 Quote
Members BrotherTony Posted May 22, 2023 Members Posted May 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said: I'm not sure calling my work a "diatribe" is fair, Tony. I post quotations from my books and blog posts because they contain already constructed thoughts on some of these topics. Like the "noble" Bereans who "searched the scriptures daily, whether those things [that Paul taught] were so," it's imperative people test my teaching against the Bible. Here are some outside sources you might appreciate: The Baptist Messenger has an article, AMILLENIALISM & REVELATION. George Baptist Church, Why every Christian should (at least) consider the Amillennial view. For something more thorough, you might like to consider the Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary series. It begins with, Amillennialism and the Age to Come—A Critical Review # 1. God bless Thank you for the other reference points. I am familiar with the Baptist Messenger and Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary. I live just two hours from Covenant in Owensboro, Kentucky. I live just outside of Nashville, Tennessee. This whole portion of the US is beautiful. Maybe I should have referred to the excerpts from your book as verbose and unnecessary. Most here who have had any ministerial background should have studied the amillinialist position and understood it's teachings. Personally I see a lot being read into what the Bible says when it comes to amillinialism. Moreso than the dispensationalist teachings. But, as stated, we don't have to agree on the interpretation of every point of doctrine as long as none of it crosses over into an apostates mindset. Again, thanks for the other references. It is appreciated. Dr. Robert S. Morley 1 Quote
Members Dr. Robert S. Morley Posted May 23, 2023 Members Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 18 hours ago, Joe Chandler said: Is there room for a dual fulfillment of prophecy here? In 2Thes 2, Paul makes reference to the abomination that maketh desolate. so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. The context is given in the first verses of this chapter. 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Just at the prophets and the disciples thought there was one coming of Christ. Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? Some futurists see a correlation between Daniel 12:11 (and 9:27) and 2 Thess. 2. However, as I see it, though the "man of sin" acts extremely abominably, Paul is not referencing Daniel's prophecy, "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days" (Dan. 12:11). See also Daniel 9:27, "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." These prophecies have to do with the end of the sacrificial system, which was the context in which Jesus used the term (See Matt. 24:15, Mark 13:14). Nor is Paul referencing “the abomination that maketh desolate” in Daniel 11:31, which the context shows is a prophecy about an earlier occasion of desolation under the Seleucid king Antiochus Epiphanes ("God Manifest") IV, who profaned the temple in 167 BC. "And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate" (Dan. 11:31). After a military setback, this foreign king returns to the land of Judah and has his armed forces support him in this sacrilege, "hav[ing]indignation against the holy covenant" (see vs 30-31). Here are my thoughts with regards "the temple of God" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, where "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." The physical temple was destroyed soon after the letter was written (leaving room for it referencing events associated with the destruction of the temple in 70AD, though I think otherwise as it references so much more), bringing an end to the practices associated with it, as they were obsolete, having been fulfilled in Christ. God dwelling in union with people was always His intention. Jesus’ prayer, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me" (John 17:21) is being answered as people are added to His Church, "the household of God . . . Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit" (Eph. 2:19-22). The physical temple was understood by Jesus as His Father’s "house," (Luke 19:46), but the Church has become "the household of God." This is also seen in verses like, "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" (1 Cor. 3:16), and "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 2:5). Another physical temple only distances people from God and is a regression from God’s purposes. God has united believers with Christ and has no need for a physical building as a temple again. Consequently, any future attempt to reconstruct a physical temple would fly in the face of God’s purposes. If any physical temple ever gets built, it would not be because God sanctioned it. And, not being mandated by God, it would not be seen by God as His temple, nor would it have been referred to as "the temple of God” in His word, as in 2 Thess. 2:3-4, where "that man of sin . . . sitteth." The idea is of another physical temple after Christ came and instituted the New Covenant is foreign to the trajectory of the Old Testament and the teaching of the New Testament. Hebrews 8:13 says, "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away," (and it did). Edited May 23, 2023 by Dr. Robert S. Morley Added: "soon after the letter was written (leaving room for it referencing events associated with the destruction of the temple in 70AD, though I think otherwise as it references so much more)" Quote
Members Dr. Robert S. Morley Posted May 23, 2023 Members Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 18 hours ago, Joe Chandler said: Just at the prophets and the disciples thought there was one coming of Christ. Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? The article in the Christian Researcher, Restoring the Kingdom to Israel, has been, for me, the most satisfying explanation of Acts 1:6. I recommend reading the whole article to do this view (abridged by me here) justice. Here are some extracts: JESUS' TEACHING Acts 1:3-5 3 [Jesus] presented Himself alive [to His apostles] after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. 4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Acts 1:6, "Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" These apostles were asking about the timing of the restoration. They were not asking if ethnic Israel would be restored. (That's an unproven assumption). They were not asking if ethnic Israel would be freed from Roman rule and, from now on, begin ruling themselves. (That's an unproven assumption). They were asking: Is it time for the kingdom to be restored like the prophets prophesied? NOTE: Whatever kind of "restoration" the OT prophets were predicting – that's the very kind of restoration the apostles were asking about. Q: Did the OT prophets predict the restoration of Israel? A: Yes. We read several of those prophecies (e.g. Isa 1; Jer 23, 33) If the prophets predicted a restoration of Israel [and they did], And if the apostles were asking about this restoration [and they were], Then the restoration they were asking about is the same restoration which the prophets predicted. ... JESUS' ANSWER Since the question was: Acts 1:6, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" Their question was about timing – not the nature of the kingdom. We now look for the answer of "when." Acts 1:7, And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. Although it appears Jesus is refusing to answer their question about time, this is not the whole story. Look back at v5: Acts 1:5, "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Jesus already told the apostles it would be soon – "not many days from now." But they weren't content with that. They wanted a more precise target date. Jesus refuses to get more specific. All they need to know for now is: It will occur soon. It will occur when the Spirit is poured out on God's people. Edited May 23, 2023 by Dr. Robert S. Morley added "here" to "(abridged by me)" Quote
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