Salvation and Free Will

[Anon]

It is our choice to be saved. God will convict, but we must choose whether to reject or accept Christ.

So my question is:

What part does prayer have, by saved people, on the outcome of a lost person's decision? I know personally a man whose godly wife prayed for him for years to get saved, and he died in his sleep lost. Obviously it was because he exercised his free will and chose not to get saved. So then what part can prayer play? Will God soften someone's heart? Will God answer the fervent prayer of a saved person on the behalf of someone's soul? And if so, is there a random way He chooses to soften hearts? Do you suppose God tried to soften this man's heart in answer to his wife's prayers, and he rejected that?

Right now I know another very similar situation...the wife is a very good friend of mine and she is praying earnestly for her husband's salvation...but he is right now very cold to the Gospel, although a very kind and loving man. He may or may not have many years left to live as he is almost 70. How far will God go to answer her prayer? I am still a little upset about the other man who died amidst all of our prayers...lost.... my grandpa also died amidst many prayers...lost.... and I can't imagine if this man right now would die in the same state. It would drive his wife literally insane with grief, because he is all she has--they have no children, and she loves him dearly. Can prayer work?

Hope this post makes sense...

[kevinmiller]

I believe that prayer can be very powerful. I mean, you are appealing directly to our Father in Heaven. And, obviously, God would have all men come to repentance. But, on the flip side, He forces no man to love Him. Therefore, God can put situations in place to drive a man to repentance and he may convict and use people in his life, but He cannot force them to accept Him.

[Anon]

So prayer does have at least some power in helping someone get saved, right? Even if it does not seem like it? Could some of the answer to prayer just be in the lost man's heart, and we will never know about it?

[kevinmiller]

I think so. We don't know how God works and we will never know until Heaven. Doesn't the Bible say that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much? I believe it. :thumb

[Anon]

So, if you had to...what would you say to a wife who had prayed for her husband to get saved 10, 15, 20 years, and he died lost.

It wasn't God's will?

The husband was a stubborn old goat?

What?

[kevinmiller]

God heard your prayer but He can't force someone to choose Him. We'll never know how God worked but He can't make the choice for him.

[John81]

We must also consider the flip-side. Look at all those who have prayed for lost spouses (or others) and seen them come to Christ. Sometimes they come to Christ soon, sometimes decades down the line. I've read of many cases where someone prayed for another for several decades and yet it wasn't until after that person (the one praying) died that the other came to Christ.

We can trust that the Lord hears our prayers and responds. We can trust that whether a person comes to Christ or not, the Lord has presented them with the opportunity to come to Christ.

[Sojourner]

Well, ya know.......you can't have it both ways. If you believe that God does not interfere with man's will and he is free to choose or reject Him, then how can you pray for the lost? What good will it do, really?

But.......... if you believe that God moves on the hearts of men and will accomplish His will in saving those He has chosen to save, then you can pray consistently and confidently, I think. You may ask tho, why pray at all if God has already chosen some? Because God has ordained prayer and commands it. He has chosen prayer, just as He has chosen preaching, to carry out His will. He has promised to answer prayer so it must be of some worth, obviously.

[LindaR]

We must also consider the flip-side. Look at all those who have prayed for lost spouses (or others) and seen them come to Christ. Sometimes they come to Christ soon, sometimes decades down the line. I've read of many cases where someone prayed for another for several decades and yet it wasn't until after that person (the one praying) died that the other came to Christ.

We can trust that the Lord hears our prayers and responds. We can trust that whether a person comes to Christ or not, the Lord has presented them with the opportunity to come to Christ.

The same situation happened at our church. One of the members' husband was involved in an accident which paralyzed him from the neck down...he is now a quadraplegic and in a wheelchair. He was not saved at the time of his accident--in October, 2003. His wife and the rest of his family had been praying for Doug for many years. He would not come to church before his accident, but praise the Lord, he started coming to church at the beginning of 2006. To make a long story short...on March 26, 2006, on Doug's 69th birthday, he trusted Christ as his Saviour and Lord.

He could have died unsaved from that accident, but he didn't. God put him in that wheelchair for His purpose--I believe that purpose was his salvation. Now Bro Doug knows where he will go when he dies. God is doing great things in Doug's life...he's a wonderful witness to the love and mercy of God.

Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me;
I once was lost, but now I'm found; was blind but now I see!

[kevinmiller]

Well, ya know.......you can't have it both ways. If you believe that God does not interfere with man's will and he is free to choose or reject Him, then how can you pray for the lost? What good will it do, really?

But.......... if you believe that God moves on the hearts of men and will accomplish His will in saving those He has chosen to save, then you can pray consistently and confidently, I think. You may ask tho, why pray at all if God has already chosen some? Because God has ordained prayer and commands it. He has chosen prayer, just as He has chosen preaching, to carry out His will. He has promised to answer prayer so it must be of some worth, obviously.

I was going to respond but I'd rather request that we keep election vs. free will out of this thread. The horse-beating merry-go-round is in the 19-page thread titled "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation." :smile

[Sojourner]

I was going to respond but I'd rather request that we keep election vs. free will out of this thread. The horse-beating merry-go-round is in the 19-page thread titled "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation." :smile

It's interesting, when it comes to praying, how Arminians pray like Calvinists.....and that's great, because God does hear and answer prayer and does change hearts. :smile

[kevinmiller]

Oh, I agree, the prayer is the same even if the philosophy is different. So, if you want to believe in Calvinism, that's fine, but let's not debate about it everywhere we go. lol
And besides, I'm not Armenian and I don't think anyone else here is either.

[John81]

The same situation happened at our church. One of the members' husband was involved in an accident which paralyzed him from the neck down...he is now a quadraplegic and in a wheelchair. He was not saved at the time of his accident--in October, 2003. His wife and the rest of his family had been praying for Doug for many years. He would not come to church before his accident, but praise the Lord, he started coming to church at the beginning of 2006. To make a long story short...on March 26, 2006, on Doug's 69th birthday, he trusted Christ as his Saviour and Lord.

He could have died unsaved from that accident, but he didn't. God put him in that wheelchair for His purpose--I believe that purpose was his salvation. Now Bro Doug knows where he will go when he dies. God is doing great things in Doug's life...he's a wonderful witness to the love and mercy of God.

Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me;
I once was lost, but now I'm found; was blind but now I see!

Praise God! What a wonderful testimony! :amen:

[Anon]

Well without going there.... God has a foreknowledge of everything anyway (barring a discussion on calvinists vs armeniests, which I agree, nobody here is the latter) so "why pray"? I know God can change the future in response to someone's prayer (although he knows in advance about the prayer and the answer, its beyond our comprehension really) but I was just wondering why some can pray and then in John's case, the man gets saved....others pour their hearts out to God and yet someone dies lost.

[heartstrings]

1Pe 3:1