More : Crazy Calvinism

[Behold]

 

Reader, 

 

There is this Teaching that the more hyper Calvinists seem to employ.

This.. = "You must be born again, before you can believe, before you can give God your faith".

Now, any Believer who is born again for 12 seconds, can see that this is exactly backwards, and is an impossible situation to EXIST.

That teaching is teaching that God would join Himself to a sinner, as "one with God" "in Christ"...=  before God has received their faith to then forgive their sin.

So that teaching is... "you are born again, before you have heard the Gospel, and before you have BELIEVED IT">

That is,=  "Salvation comes to you.... before the hearing of faith..... and before you trusted in Christ..."

 

That teaching is...."you are born again to then be able to have faith in Christ".

Now, see how CRAZY Calvinism that is??

That teaching is Theological insanity, and is one of the best examples of... Hebrews 13:9,  = "doctrines of Devils".

That Teaching is a rejection of "All that believe in Jesus, shall be saved".

That Teaching is : Galatians 1:8

Edited March 25 by Behold

[SGO]

Please quote your source for this teaching.

[MikeWatson1]

4 hours ago, Behold said:

 

Reader, 

 

There is this Teaching that the more hyper Calvinists seem to employ.

This.. = "You must be born again, before you can believe, before you can give God your faith".

Now, any Believer who is born again for 12 seconds, can see that this is exactly backwards, and is an impossible situation to EXIST.

That teaching is teaching that God would join Himself to a sinner, as "one with God" "in Christ"...=  before God has received their faith to then forgive their sin.

So that teaching is... "you are born again, before you have heard the Gospel, and before you have BELIEVED IT">

That is,=  "Salvation comes to you.... before the hearing of faith..... and before you trusted in Christ..."

 

That teaching is...."you are born again to then be able to have faith in Christ".

Now, see how CRAZY Calvinism that is??

That teaching is Theological insanity, and is one of the best examples of... Hebrews 13:9,  = "doctrines of Devils".

That Teaching is a rejection of "All that believe in Jesus, shall be saved".

That Teaching is : Galatians 1:8

Yeah, I understand the calvinist wanting salvation to be zero percent us and 100 percent God.  That is how salvation is supposed to be. But they assume 'believe' to be a good work in the book of John.  So they put salvation before belief.

So the thing is explaining to the calvinist that 'believing' is not a work.  

I like to think of it as belief that is initiated by Jesus.. so that He draws us to Him.. and by that drawing we are enabled to believe by Him.  Not though that this is irresistible.. we can still reject this drawing.. reject salvation.. but that it is not started by us and made by us.  All the lost person is doing is giving in to this drawing, by placing their faith 100 percent in Jesus.  That doesn't seem a work on our part.

Just because a lost person is dead in sin.. doesn't mean they have no free will to choose.

 

 

[Jerry]

God doesn't give us faith - though He does convict us of sin and gives us the ability to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption. Yes, salvation is wholly of God, but He does not save us without us responding to the Gospel, without us calling upon Him for salvation.

13 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

Just because a lost person is dead in sin.. doesn't mean they have no free will to choose.

Yes, dead in sin does not equate unable to respond at all. If we were so dead we couldn't do anything like a physically dead person cannot do anything, guess what? A physically dead person cannot sin either.

[Guest Silverhair]

On 3/25/2024 at 1:59 PM, SGO said:

Please quote your source for this teaching.

Calvinists teach that God’s elect have eternal life before they can come to Christ to receive eternal life.

Calvinists teach that we must be born again with life from the Holy Spirit before we may respond to God in any way.

“A cardinal point of Reformed theology is the maxim: ‘Regeneration precedes faith.’ [R.C. Sproul Chosen By God, pp.72-73].

“A man is not saved because he believes in Christ; he believes in Christ because he is saved”. [L. Boettner The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, Page 75]

If Calvinism is true then faith in Jesus is secondary to election and logically faith plays no part in your salvation, election is what matters not faith.

The Calvinist asks: “How shall they believe if they have not been regenerated?” whereas Christianity asks: “How shall they believe if they have not heard?” Rom_10:14; Joh_5:39-40

 

[Silverhair]

On 3/25/2024 at 1:59 PM, SGO said:

Please quote your source for this teaching.

Calvinists teach that God’s elect have eternal life before they can come to Christ to receive eternal life.

Calvinists teach that we must be born again with life from the Holy Spirit before we may respond to God in any way.

“A cardinal point of Reformed theology is the maxim: ‘Regeneration precedes faith.’ [R.C. Sproul Chosen By God, pp.72-73].

“A man is not saved because he believes in Christ; he believes in Christ because he is saved”. [L. Boettner The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, Page 75]

If Calvinism is true then faith in Jesus is secondary to election and logically faith plays no part in your salvation, election is what matters not faith.

The Calvinist asks: “How shall they believe if they have not been regenerated?” whereas Christianity asks: “How shall they believe if they have not heard?” Rom_10:14; Joh_5:39-40

[Jerry]

Yes, we must be regenerated (born again) so we can be born again.

[BrotherTony]

It's so very disconcerting that they teach this garbage...I have seen many walk away from Christ because of it and the confusion it breeds.

[MikeWatson1]

The other thing they usually do is 'back load' works into being 'chosen'

So if they are chosen.. they WILL be faithful..guaranteed to be faithful.

It's works based even though they don't say it is.

[Silverhair]

10 hours ago, Jerry said:

Yes, we must be regenerated (born again) so we can be born again.

That is an illogical statement. But then again I have seen a number of illogical statements made by those of the TULIP persuasion.

I have spent many the hour dealing with some of the more strident ones.

[Jerry]

I just realized someone reading my last post might think I was actually teaching that. I was restating what Calvinists are basically teaching, not what I believe. It just goes to show how wrong and absurd their teaching is.

[Silverhair]

4 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

The other thing they usually do is 'back load' works into being 'chosen'

So if they are chosen.. they WILL be faithful..guaranteed to be faithful.

It's works based even though they don't say it is.

I have had some of the calvinists' that I have dealt with tell me that you can only know if you are one of the elect if you have good works.

So logically it is as you say a works based salvation and they can never know if they have done enough good works.

1 minute ago, Jerry said:

I just realized someone reading my last post might think I was actually teaching that. I was restating what Calvinists are basically teaching, not what I believe. It just goes to show how wrong and absurd their teaching is.

I did not think you were supporting calvinism, sorry if my reply came across that way.

[SureWord]

I had a Calvinst straight up tell me that unelected babies go to hell and that we should be thankful and give God glory for this. He was the most consistent adherent to what the heresy ultimately comes to, i.e. God fueling the fires of hell with babies. Most will stop short of this conclusion.

[BrotherTony]

@Silverhair, are you using the same moniker on Baptist Boards? I thought I would ask while I was thinking about it... Thanks. 

As far as the Calvinist vs. Arminian debate, I try to stay away from such destructive issues that divide and distract from the love of Christ for his creation, and his willingness to save all who would willingly accept his free gift of salvation.

[Jerry]

11 hours ago, Silverhair said:

I did not think you were supporting calvinism, sorry if my reply came across that way.

No, but when I read your reply I realized I might have not been as clear in my post to other readers, so wanted to clarify in case someone doesn’t read the whole thread.