But for the elect's sake

[heartstrings]

Matthew 24

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 

Sunday night our pastor, in reading this passage, said that the "elect" here refers to the children of Israel. I always thought it was simply believers. What say you?

[TheGloryLand]

32 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

Matthew 24

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 

Sunday night our pastor, in reading this passage, said that the "elect" here refers to the children of Israel. I always thought it was simply believers. What say you?

I believe your pastor was correct, when he said, the children of Israel. I believe the rapture will take place before the seven years of tribulation on earth. Now, for those that believe the rapture will happen during the seven years might think differently. I have heard preached, that the Christians will not be here during the antichrist controlling, during the seven years. 

[heartstrings]

2 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

I believe your pastor was correct, when he said, the children of Israel. I believe the rapture will take place before the seven years of tribulation on earth. Now, for those that believe the rapture will happen during the seven years might think differently. I have heard preached, that the Christians will not be here during the antichrist controlling, during the seven years. 

I believe, after the rapture, that anyone who refuses the mark of the beast is part of that particular "elect". Doesn't have to be Israelites specifically.

[Jerry]

Israel is referred to as God’s elect in the Old Testament. Though it does not necessarily mean only they are referred to in Matthew 24 (though Israel is the primary people referred to in that chapter - hence the Judean hills, the sabbath, etc.).

[Joe Chandler]

Romans 9:6-13 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

2 John 1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

2 John 13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

[SureWord]

You are not "the elect" just because you are of Hebrew stock and especially if you converted to Judaism (a mystical, occultic religion) regardless of what Ben Shapiro or John Hager insists.

The elect are those who have responded to God's calling. 

I will grant that the passage in Matthew 24 may be referring specifically to the children of Israel that don't take the mark and are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb but there will be plenty of Gentiles who will fall into that category also.

[Jerry]

There are multiple passages that indicate God will turn back to Israel and will save those remaining after a certain point in the tribulation period. Those are the elect Matthew 24 is referring to (not the only elect in Scripture, but the elect in the context of that passage as the church will no longer be on the earth during those seven years).

[R Sauter]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:59 AM, Joe Chandler said:

Romans 9:6-13 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

2 John 1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

2 John 13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

Looks like you pulled up a word search on the word "Elect" and pasted it here. Got anything to say about it? I have a few observations anyway:

First of all, with the verses you have cited, it should be clear to any 5th grade Sunday Schooler that "Elect" does not just pertain to Israel. All who are in Christ are God's elect whether Jew or Gentile.

If you are in Christ, you are of his elect and have therefore been chosen in him from the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4).

Secondly, just because one is of Jewish descent (the seed of Abraham according to the flesh) does not mean they are automatically included in the elect. Romans 9;6 which you have cited (For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel) makes this very clear as well as in Jesus's dealings with certain Jewish leaders (Jn 8:39-45). God therefore has his elect among the Jews as well as among the Gentile nations.

The case can be made that Mt 24 is specifically Jewish regarding events pertaining to Israel and to a Jewish audience. If it is in reference to vs. 15-24, this is speaking of the abomination of desolation (whatever this may be) and those who are in peril and are fleeing are definitely Israelites and other inhabitants of Jerusalem. You can therefore make the statement that the "Elect" spoken of in this passage are Jewish believers who have had their heart of stone replaced with a heart of flesh (Ez 11:19).

The doctrine of election is all throughout the scriptures and no matter how averse you are to Calvinism, you will have to deal with these passages in an honest and forthright manner otherwise you will have a devil of a time teaching your people when you come across Romans 9-11, Eph 1-2, and many others! If you claim to be a "Bible Believer," its time to put it to practice!

[MikeWatson1]

I've understood predestination to be about heaven being pre set for a person who is born again.  

Not pre chosen as in one group is saved pre-determined and the other not.

I've understood 'elect' to be all who responded to the call for salvation thru Jesus Christ. Whether Jew or Gentile. 

Also those who have joined a church God considers His own have a slightly better destiny than those who didn't join one. So people in those churches have a pre set destiny if they remain a faithful church member.

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by MikeWatson1
Extra needed

[Jerry]

46 minutes ago, MikeWatson1 said:

Also those who have joined a church God considers His own have a slightly better destiny than those who didn't join one. So people in those churches have a pre set destiny if they remain a faithful church member.

What are you talking about here? Those who are saved in this dispensation are part of the bride of Christ, the church - but a church goer (if saved) has no different destiny than a non-church goer.

[MikeWatson1]

On 12/2/2023 at 4:28 PM, Jerry said:

What are you talking about here? Those who are saved in this dispensation are part of the bride of Christ, the church - but a church goer (if saved) has no different destiny than a non-church goer.

The body of Christ defined in 1 co 12 is the church at Corinth.  Local and visible. Assembled, saved and baptised believers, covenanted to carry out the great commission and commandment.

That is different to the Family of God. All redeemed. Saved, but may not be baptised or in a local body of Christ.

These two groups don't have the same destiny in the end. Both in heaven, but not there with the same rewards or at the same time.

 

[Jerry]

Same destiny and destination. At the rapture, ALL born again believers are all going to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in the air at the same time, and will dwell with Him forever - together.