Turning from sin

[MikeWatson1]

It is extremely popular these days to have in a salvation tract 'commiting your life to Christ ' and/or 'turning from sin'... for receiving eternal salvation.

These are fine and noble things of course.  But are they things someone can actually do before conversion? 

Is not 'turning from sin' ..a work? 

Is not 'commiting your life to Christ ' also a work?

Salvation is all about believing on Jesus Christ... it isn't an effort on the part of the believer of behaviour.

You gotta know you are a sinner at salvation of course... otherwise how would God convict you.. but repent doesn't mean 'turn from sin ' as a behaviour..but 'change of heart, mind' that happens at belief on Jesus.

John 3:16, 5:24, 10:28..Romans 5:8

Edited August 31, 2023 by MikeWatson1
Spelling out

[BrotherTony]

6 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

It is extremely popular these days to have in a salvation tract 'commiting your life to Christ ' and/or 'turning from sin'... for receiving eternal salvation.

These are fine and noble things of course.  But are they things someone can actually do before conversion? 

Is not 'turning from sin' ..a work? 

Is not 'commiting your life to Christ ' also a work?

Salvation is all about believing on Jesus Christ... it isn't an effort on the part of the believer of behaviour.

You gotta know you are a sinner at salvation of course... otherwise how would God convict you.. but repent doesn't mean 'turn from sin ' as a behaviour..but 'change of heart, mind' that happens at belief on Jesus.

John 3:16, 5:24, 10:28..Romans 5:8

If one truly is repentant they will be turning away from sin. That would be a post salvation "work." 

[Pastor Matt]

15 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

Salvation is all about believing on Jesus Christ... it isn't an effort on the part of the believer of behaviour.

That is correct: Salvation is all about believing in Jesus Christ. When an individual genuinely believes something, it prompts a change. If repentance occurs at the moment of belief, then it's not a prerequisite for salvation.

[MikeWatson1]

11 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

If one truly is repentant they will be turning away from sin. That would be a post salvation "work." 

I kind of agree with you, but I'm not a fan of saying a saved person definitely WILL do good works. 

There definitely will be fruit from being converted... but that can be invisible to others looking from outside. It's a work on the persons soul...not an outward work of good deeds.

[BrotherTony]

33 minutes ago, MikeWatson1 said:

I kind of agree with you, but I'm not a fan of saying a saved person definitely WILL do good works. 

There definitely will be fruit from being converted... but that can be invisible to others looking from outside. It's a work on the persons soul...not an outward work of good deeds.

And I never implied so. That was your understanding of what I stated. 

[MikeWatson1]

55 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

And I never implied so. That was your understanding of what I stated. 

Okay, yes. It's common on other site forums to say a saved person IS going to do good works..be faithful to the end. And if they aren't...to say they were never converted.  Doesn't matter if they have they have believed.

 

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

Okay, yes. It's common on other site forums to say a saved person IS going to do good works..be faithful to the end. And if they aren't...to say they were never converted.  Doesn't matter if they have they have believed.

 

I've seen this kind of drivel on several religious sites on the Internet. A lot like to push their opinions onto a scripture verse, twisting it to suit their own ideology and beliefs.

[Jerry]

The Biblical definition of repentance (based on word usage) is a change of mind resulting in a change of conduct. True repentance always leads to a changed life - but repentance is the change of mind before any actions take place. The two sides of the coin of salvation are faith and repentance. Both go together and you Biblically can’t have one without the other. True faith in the Saviour will result in a turning from sin to the Saviour - and true repentance is the same. If someone thinks they have repented but they are not trusting the Saviour, they are deceiving themselves - and if they think they are turning to the Saviour in faith but do not repent of their sins (and their reason for needing a Saviour in the first place), then they also don’t know what true salvation is - they are just being religious.

Above Tony mentioned the other idea certain people teach: ie. holding out to the end, remaining faithful. That is often spouted by Calvinists. It is not our holding onto the truth or the Saviour that saves us, but faith in Him - and He is faithful to keep us safe in Him and bring us safely home to Heaven, even if we stumble or falter on the way.

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

1 Thessalonians 1:9
For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

[BrotherTony]

Jerry, you sttributed a statement to me that was actually made by Mike. I would never make such a statement as I don't hold to the Calvinist viewpoints of scripture.. 

[SureWord]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:48 PM, MikeWatson1 said:

It is extremely popular these days to have in a salvation tract 'commiting your life to Christ ' and/or 'turning from sin'... for receiving eternal salvation.

These are fine and noble things of course.  But are they things someone can actually do before conversion? 

Is not 'turning from sin' ..a work? 

Is not 'commiting your life to Christ ' also a work?

Salvation is all about believing on Jesus Christ... it isn't an effort on the part of the believer of behaviour.

You gotta know you are a sinner at salvation of course... otherwise how would God convict you.. but repent doesn't mean 'turn from sin ' as a behaviour..but 'change of heart, mind' that happens at belief on Jesus.

John 3:16, 5:24, 10:28..Romans 5:8

Years ago after I was first saved I spent some time on a year round camp for youth who were at their last chance stop before going to juvee. Well, not all but many. Some of them just had other issues going on at home or schoo so their parents sent them to this ministryl.

But any ways, this whole thing about "commiting your life to Christ" or "did you really repent" and "follow the Master" caused a lot of stress on more than a few of them mostly those who really  were concerned were believers. This is another trap Satan can use to get someone to lose their joy in the Lord and give up. The non-believers don't care. This was because they would "repent" but go right back to doing the same things they repented of then would doubt if they were even saved at all. I mean, if Jesus was "Lord of all or his wasn't Lord at all" they surely wouldn't do such things. Didn't they commit their life to Christ? Then, of course, they would pray the "Sinner's Prayer" again at the altar and the vicious cycle would start all over. Some would begin to wonder if maybe they might not be part of "the Elect".

There's no "commit your life to Christ" at salvation or in order to be saved. The thief on the cross, well, his life was useless at that point. 

[MikeWatson1]

7 hours ago, SureWord said:

Years ago after I was first saved I spent some time on a year round camp for youth who were at their last chance stop before going to juvee. Well, not all but many. Some of them just had other issues going on at home or schoo so their parents sent them to this ministryl.

But any ways, this whole thing about "commiting your life to Christ" or "did you really repent" and "follow the Master" caused a lot of stress on more than a few of them mostly those who really  were concerned were believers. This is another trap Satan can use to get someone to lose their joy in the Lord and give up. The non-believers don't care. This was because they would "repent" but go right back to doing the same things they repented of then would doubt if they were even saved at all. I mean, if Jesus was "Lord of all or his wasn't Lord at all" they surely wouldn't do such things. Didn't they commit their life to Christ? Then, of course, they would pray the "Sinner's Prayer" again at the altar and the vicious cycle would start all over. Some would begin to wonder if maybe they might not be part of "the Elect".

There's no "commit your life to Christ" at salvation or in order to be saved. The thief on the cross, well, his life was useless at that point. 

I guess it is the same issue of 'back loading ' works into salvation.  People having to prove they are converted by their good deeds. 

Turning from sin and committing your life to Christ I believe are righteous and Godly things. But I think you gotta have your sins forgiven ..be converted..before doing life commitments and lessening sin in your life.

It's right to want to serve Jesus of course..but mix service into salvation and salvation may not happen.

The central thing of why I oppose turning from sin in tracts as part of salvation.. is it isn't self reformation at salvation but knowing you can't reform yourself without Jesus.

Putting turning from sin as part of salvation..to me is the same as trying to make a lifelong commitment to Christ of good deeds. If someone fails in this commitment or fails in turning from sin after they think they are saved...then like you say...fears they weren't saved.  

But it is Jesus' forgiveness that gets them to heaven... not their behaviour.

Of course there will be fruit from being saved... and someone who falls into old sin will be rebuked by God..so it's likely they will turn from sin.  But the promise to turn from sin isn't receiving eternal life.

 

[Jerry]

Repentance is Biblical and essential to being saved, as many passages state. It is not either/or. There is no salvation apart from repentance. The Bible teaches BOTH repentance and faith. The issue is when we define repentance in an unbiblical way.

Repentance is not the outward turning from sin that comes as we walk with the Lord - it is the inward changing of mind towards sin and the Saviour* (otherwise, why look to the Saviour if you are not sorry or convicted of your sins and believe you need the Saviour to wash them away?) that will result in the outward change - but repentance is not that outward change. If it was, that would be works.

Look up the different forms of the word “repentance” (ie. repent, repented, repentance, repents), and see how it is used in the Bible. Every time it always results in a changed life - if it is true repentance. The only exception is Judas, who it says “repented himself” - it was not repentance towards God (as he did not get saved), but was regret for the consequences of his actions.

*Another Biblical term we find in regards to turning to the Lord and having our sins forgiven is “confess(ion)”, as mentioned in 1 John 1:9; Romans 10:8-9, and Proverbs 28:13 (though a different underlying word is used here). It means “to agree with, be of one mind with.” In these contexts, it is referring to being of one mind with the Lord, agreeing with Him and His Word about what He says regarding my lack of righteousness, my sinfulness and my need for the Saviour. That is both what the OT Law did (showed us our sinfulness and need of the Saviour, by showing us that we broke God’s Law and we needed someone to pay sin’s price), and the ministry of the Holy Spirit as stated in John 16:7-11, to convict of sin, righteousness, and judgement.

The Bible teaches there will be good fruit in a true believer’s life - though it does not say how much, what kind, or how soon they bear fruit. If they never bear good fruit somewhere along the way, then they were never saved, according to multiple passages.

[Joe Chandler]

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

We obeyed from the heart. Recognizing that you are a sinner is a prerequisite to salvation. 

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Sanctification is a result of presenting your body a living sacrifice. I think we over complicate things sometimes.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Joe Chandler

[heartstrings]

The Holy Spirit convicts with Sin, Righteousness and Judgement. So you must acknowledge that you are a wicked sinner, bound for Hell, and deserve it, and turn to Jesus for salvation accepting His finished work on Calvary. That is all done in the heart, and every bit of it is by faith. You are, in essence, turning to Jesus, in faith, from sin and self. But "repentance' is, and should be, an ongoing occurrence or process in the Christian life.

Edited September 5, 2023 by heartstrings
clarification

[Jerry]

Yes, on both counts. I knew a preacher who tried preaching repentance was only for the lost when they came to Christ - but I think there are just as many passages that refer to it in a believer’s life. It is a life of repentance, making choices to draw closer and closer to the Lord the longer we walk with Him. If someone ever gets to where they stop repenting, I truly think it means they have stopped growing (for that time) and are not close to the Lord. If we think we are “standing still” in our Christian lives, we are mistaken. We are starting to backslide.

in reference to the lost repenting when they come to Christ, someone gave this excellent illustration:

You are holding on to sin. To turn to the Lord, you must let the sin go (ie. in your mind, heart) to have your hands open to receive Jesus’ gift of salvation.

It is not cleaning up your life first - it is choosing to let the sin go - changing your mind about your sin and not loving it the way you did before you came to the Saviour. Then, as you walk with the Lord, you work on your life and your spiritual walk together.

Song of Songs 2:15 Take us the foxes,
the little foxes, that spoil the vines:
for our vines have tender grapes.

Matthew 11:28-30
Salvation from the burden of your sin - Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Daily victory in the Lord as you walk with Him - Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.