Does the United States need a national flat tax?

[BrotherTony]

This was a great debate when I was going to high school, and has been raised again time and time again since. Would the citizens of the United States benefit from the dissolution of the IRS and the implementation of a National Flat Tax instead of the current graduated tax system and thousands of IRS agents? Would it be fair to everyone, or would it just be another benefit for the wealthiest one percent?  Our neighbors to the North have a National Flat Tax, or something similar? Do you believe it has benefited them? Please give your reasons for the position you hold. Thanks.

[SureWord]

FairTax. A tax only on consumption. There would be some kinks that would need to be worked out of the plan.

With all the trillions we've been spending on endless wars  that only benefits the mega-rich I no longer oppose a guaranteed income for certain individuals who qualify. I'm not talking about a putrid social security check either. My mother worked hard many years as a single mother and all she has to show for it is a $600 dollar a month check from SSA. I may sound like a commie but it seems to be with a consumer based economy people having more money to buy things would benefit everyone. The government would benefit with a consumption tax and corporations would benefit with more of their products being sold. But right now because of the greedy mega-rich like Bill Gates, George Soros and Larry Fink and their shills in the the Uniparty we are stuck stagnate in an economy of poverty by keeping everyone in debt and low wages to please shareholders.

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, SureWord said:

FairTax. A tax only on consumption. There would be some kinks that would need to be worked out of the plan.

With all the trillions we've been spending on endless wars  that only benefits the mega-rich I no longer oppose a guaranteed income for certain individuals who qualify. I'm not talking about a putrid social security check either. My mother worked hard many years as a single mother and all she has to show for it is a $600 dollar a month check from SSA. I may sound like a commie but it seems to be with a consumer based economy people having more money to buy things would benefit everyone. The government would benefit with a consumption tax and corporations would benefit with more of their products being sold. But right now because of the greedy mega-rich like Bill Gates, George Soros and Larry Fink and their shills in the the Uniparty we are stuck stagnate in an economy of poverty by keeping everyone in debt and low wages to please shareholders.

To some degree I can see your point. I myself am on SS Disability, and it's not one fifth of what I would be making were I able to work. My dad and mom both worked and owned their own business... they paid taxes for years, but when dad was diagnosed with colon cancer and could no longer work and had to apply for disability he was denied and has to fight for it finally receiving a paltry amount too live on just a few months before he passed away. I myself ended up losing my house, cars and side business when I became disabled. What I had paid into the system for 20+ years got me very little. 

Now as far as taxes go, I am not sure that the kind of tax you're proposing would work. There would be, as you yourself have said, would be many kinks to work out. In today's economy and with the IRS having been weaponized by Mr. Biden, anyone making less than $100k could hardly survive if they had a family. I know his economic policies have eaten through our emergency fund, savings, retirement accounts, and my wife's settlement from an auto accident several years ago. Our checking account has been within just a couple of dollars of being overdrawn several times this year, something we haven't had to worry about in over 23 years. In some respects I can see how a flat tax could possibly benefit us and many of our friends. 

[HappyChristian]

Fair tax is the only way to go! I doubt it will ever be implemented because even those who know the Constitution (like Cruz) want a flat tax. But a fair tax is the only one that is truly fair.

Many folks try to compare it to a VAT tax (value added tax), but it is vastly different. Folks purchase things they want and they pay a sales tax. Rich people will pay "their share" when they buy yachts and expensive vehicles. The fair tax that folks are trying to get Congress to look at (it's actually already in motion) does not tax medicine or food, which is beneficial to the poor. It also comes with prebates, which is money  back.

One of the very best things about the fair tax is that the IRS is done away with after the first year of the fair tax.

Read more about it here:  https://fairtax.org/    They've got the kinks worked out, if we could get it adopted.

Sadly, the elimination of the dollar is imminent. When that happens, there will be nothing but chaos...chaos that makes Black Friday of Depression fame look like child's play. Thus America will become third world.

 

[BrotherTony]

3 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

Fair tax is the only way to go! I doubt it will ever be implemented because even those who know the Constitution (like Cruz) want a flat tax. But a fair tax is the only one that is truly fair.

Many folks try to compare it to a VAT tax (value added tax), but it is vastly different. Folks purchase things they want and they pay a sales tax. Rich people will pay "their share" when they buy yachts and expensive vehicles. The fair tax that folks are trying to get Congress to look at (it's actually already in motion) does not tax medicine or food, which is beneficial to the poor. It also comes with prebates, which is money  back.

One of the very best things about the fair tax is that the IRS is done away with after the first year of the fair tax.

Read more about it here:  https://fairtax.org/    They've got the kinks worked out, if we could get it adopted.

Sadly, the elimination of the dollar is imminent. When that happens, there will be nothing but chaos...chaos that makes Black Friday of Depression fame look like child's play. Thus America will become third world.

 

Thank you for the link. I'll have to do some more research on the Fair Tax. What I read a few years back on it wasn't as clear as what you've stated. 

[heartstrings]

Money is made and value is created by production of goods. The stock market produces nothing, politicians produce nothing. The IRS produces nothing. It has to pay thousands of employees, and millions (or billions) for administration infrastructure, and it's all dead weight and waste. Every year, citizens, workers, and business people; producers of goods, must waste countless hours and spend millions of dollars filing tax returns. My Wife does our taxes, since we own and operate 3 businesses, and it takes her several days to do it. That is lost production for our businesses and wasted time out of our lives. It's not only lost production for every worker and business owner, but it's a huge loss in "gross national product" for the nation as a whole. It's totally senseless waste of time and resources. Yes, please, a flat tax would be good for the whole country.

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, heartstrings said:

Money is made and value is created by production of goods. The stock market produces nothing, politicians produce nothing. The IRS produces nothing. It has to pay thousands of employees, and millions (or billions) for administration infrastructure, and it's all dead weight and waste. Every year, citizens, workers, and business people; producers of goods, must waste countless hours and spend millions of dollars filing tax returns. My Wife does our taxes, since we own and operate 3 businesses, and it takes her several days to do it. That is lost production for our businesses and wasted time out of our lives. It's not only lost production for every worker and business owner, but it's a huge loss in "gross national product" for the nation as a whole. It's totally senseless waste of time and resources. Yes, please, a flat tax would be good for the whole country.

Looking over the link LuAnne provided for the fair tax as opposed to the flat tax, I still see a benefit in a flat tax I see benefits in the Fair Tax as well, though. All I know is that something has to be done about our broken tax system. Last year, and for the 23 years I have had SS, the government has taken about 33 percent of my paycheck. I shouldn't have to pay a tax on what has already been a tax. My wife's tax burden in the lower end of the "middle class," is atrociously high and unfair. We are being taxed to death. Not only does our tax system need an overhaul, but capitalism as a whole needs one. I'm a capitalist, but, the inequities of the system are getting greater every year.

[heartstrings]

12 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Looking over the link LuAnne provided for the fair tax as opposed to the flat tax, I still see a benefit in a flat tax I see benefits in the Fair Tax as well, though. All I know is that something has to be done about our broken tax system. Last year, and for the 23 years I have had SS, the government has taken about 33 percent of my paycheck. I shouldn't have to pay a tax on what has already been a tax. My wife's tax burden in the lower end of the "middle class," is atrociously high and unfair. We are being taxed to death. Not only does our tax system need an overhaul, but capitalism as a whole needs one. I'm a capitalist, but, the inequities of the system are getting greater every year.

I prefer the word "free enterprise". But a "capitalist" system is far better than anything else that exists. Sure beats socialism/communism by a long shot.

[BrotherTony]

2 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

I prefer the word "free enterprise". But a "capitalist" system is far better than anything else that exists. Sure beats socialism/communism by a long shot.

True. That being said, it still needs an overhaul. 

[heartstrings]

7 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

True. That being said, it still needs an overhaul. 

How do you "overhaul" something which sustains itself? without "regulating" it?

 

[BrotherTony]

The free market system, aka as Capitalism, has a greed problem that far exceeds anything we've seen before. Regulation may be a better word for it, but, corporate heads should NOT be making upwards past 3,500 x the average hourly wage of their employees. I can tell you, after working for Warnaco for 5 years and other warehouses, retailers, and others, and watching many of these employees working 60+ hours, both mother and father in the same family, not being able to make ends meet, not receiving any bonuses or incentives,  while fat cats like Linda Wachner, who was the CEO and.majority stockholder at the time through combined proxies, were helicoptering in 10 blocks from her penthouse to the corporate office every morning, bestowing on herself and her cronies large bonuses and lavish gifts... even many of her lower corporate officers finally helped in her ouster. She bankrupted the company, stole from her employees, and ended up getting a $30M bonus as a parting gift along with another 20k shares of stock. She intentionally drove down the stock price on the market from over $48 a share to 44 cents a share. My wife and I lost over 80k in our 401ks. Many at Warners lost more. My super lost over $2M in two days and tried to commit suicide. Experiencing all of this led many of us to the conclusion that corporate heads should have caps on their income as is done in many European countries, and the employees getting more in hourly wages and benefits. 

[heartstrings]

Well, Bro Tony, I also worked for one of those multi-billion dollar companies wherein the CEO, COO, whatever, was making millions, I got tired of being limited to their paycheck so I quit(officially retired) and started my own company. Then, about 18 years later, I started another enterprise in addition to the first. Now, if I don't make enough money, I have no one to blame but me.

[heartstrings]

 

17 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

The free market system, aka as Capitalism, has a greed problem that far exceeds anything we've seen before. Regulation may be a better word for it, but, corporate heads should NOT be making upwards past 3,500 x the average hourly wage of their employees. I can tell you, after working for Warnaco for 5 years and other warehouses, retailers, and others, and watching many of these employees working 60+ hours, both mother and father in the same family, not being able to make ends meet, not receiving any bonuses or incentives,  while fat cats like Linda Wachner, who was the CEO and.majority stockholder at the time through combined proxies, were helicoptering in 10 blocks from her penthouse to the corporate office every morning, bestowing on herself and her cronies large bonuses and lavish gifts... even many of her lower corporate officers finally helped in her ouster. She bankrupted the company, stole from her employees, and ended up getting a $30M bonus as a parting gift along with another 20k shares of stock. She intentionally drove down the stock price on the market from over $48 a share to 44 cents a share. My wife and I lost over 80k in our 401ks. Many at Warners lost more. My super lost over $2M in two days and tried to commit suicide. Experiencing all of this led many of us to the conclusion that corporate heads should have caps on their income as is done in many European countries, and the employees getting more in hourly wages and benefits. 

This man(now deceased) was a renowned economist and an instructor at George Mason University.

https://www.prageru.com/video/is-capitalism-moral

[BrotherTony]

33 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

Well, Bro Tony, I also worked for one of those multi-billion dollar companies wherein the CEO, COO, whatever, was making millions, I got tired of being limited to their paycheck so I quit(officially retired) and started my own company. Then, about 18 years later, I started another enterprise in addition to the first. Now, if I don't make enough money, I have no one to blame but me.

I owned (bought into and worked in) three autobody shops and used car lots when I was 18. I sold my part when I was 20 for a pittance of what I could have gotten because my two business partners were stealing from corporate funds and  one of their wives reported them to the IRS. I got out just in time to avoid problems. They lost their business to the government and had to pay fines and faced jail time. After my wife and I got married we had a sub-contracting business cleaning newly constructed homes and businesses. We did that for several years until the economy hit the construction industry. We've worked for ourselves in one form or another until 2000 when I became disabled. I also was a layperson in our church, filling in for pastors who needed a vacation or went on hiatus. The truth still remains that the system is broken. Not everyone has the aptitude to run a business.

13 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

 

This man(now deceased) was a renowned economist and an instructor at George Mason University.

https://www.prageru.com/video/is-capitalism-moral

Yes, I have seen these.