7 reasons why people leave church

[tired]

There are some issues on here that I keep quiet about. There are topics that I know for a fact will get me into a debate with people here I respect. So instead of commenting I let it go. But what I see with some is this is when they give their two cents knowing that it will cause debates. I don't believe in seperating from other christians for every reason under the sun. But I will seperate if I think their whole agenda is to lead me to a place I feel is apostate.

[John81]

I don't believe Kevin is trying to lead anyone anywhere. Like most of us, I think he wants to share his views but I don't think he's trying to force everyone to follow him. He seems to want fellowship and to enjoy friendship here. Of course, I suppose I should let Kevin speak for himself.

Myself, I can have a measure of fellowship and friendship with born again Christians who hold to some differing views so long as we don't have to debate them constantly. Some people can do this, some can't. If a brother would want to constantly argue that The Message is the only Bible worth reading and the KJB is a Bible for redneck racists, well then we couldn't have much fellowship or friendship.

Sometimes our differences here are made worse because we allow emotions to enter into the mix too much. Posts are made with mean sarcasm, a snide attitude, mockings, personal attacks and the like. These are improper and unedifying no matter which "side" engages in them. Proverbs, as well as many other places in Scripture, speak often about the need to guard our tongues, to be patient, to be kind, to speak softly, to not provoke, to turn away wrath, to not speak in anger, etc.

We need to show love to our brothers and sisters in Christ even if they are, or we think they are, wrong in some areas. We can cite Scripture and we can try to show one another the truth in a loving manner rather than as if we are dealing with an enemy.

[JerryNumbers]

Jerry - you can't possibly give the opinion of all of the "main solid members" here. I've never seen another christian brother/sister in Christ slandered so much as Kevin has on this forum' date=' and I'm so tired of it.[/quote']

The thing is, Kevin puts down all Baptist teachings, Baptist teachings that comes right from the Bible. Perhaps you do not like standing up for the true Baptist teachings that come from the Bible, but some of us do. Its standing up for God the Father and our Savior Jesus Christ. Kevin is all about division.

This board is not about acceptance, but standing up for "true Bible teaching."

And its not slander, its correction, that is exactly what the Bible is for.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good
2 Tim 3:16-17 (KJV)

And if you love someone, and their on the wrong path, the right thing to do is to help them get on the right path by trying to correct them. That is the least one can do.

[Guest Guest]

[quote="Jerry80871852"][quote="matie-k"]Jerry - you can't possibly give the opinion of all of the "main solid members" here. I've never seen another christian brother/sister in Christ slandered so much as Kevin has on this forum, and I'm so tired of it.[/quote]

The thing is, Kevin puts down all Baptist teachings, Baptist teachings that comes right from the Bible. Perhaps you do not like standing up for the true Baptist teachings that come from the Bible, but some of us do. Its standing up for God the Father and our Savior Jesus Christ. Kevin is all about division.

This board is not about acceptance, but standing up for "true Bible teaching."

And its not slander, its correction, that is exactly what the Bible is for.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good
2 Tim 3:16-17 (KJV)

And if you love someone, and their on the wrong path, the right thing to do is to help them get on the right path by trying to correct them. That is the least one can do.[/quote]

:amen: :goodpost: Jerry8. I am an IFB because I not only believe, but I know, this church preaches the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. I have seen the other side...in the RCC. I want to hear truth, and if it causes hurt or conviction inside my heart ...then, so be it. I need spiritual growth, and I know this comes directly from the KJV. The IFB church stands firm on the truth. :thumb

candlelight

[tired]

I think a few here are generalizing the IFB. They think all are like First Baptist of Hammond or all are Lester Rolloff followers. This isn't the case. That would be like saying all presbytereans are PCA liberals and all ordain sodomites or women. When we know for a fact that most free presbytereans don't believe this. There is a huge difference between Ian Paisley and a local PCA pastor. So blanket statements about IFB are also wrong. Granted there are some IFb churches who are almost cults but to say all IFers are the same is nonsense.

[Guest Guest]

[quote="tired"]I think a few here are generalizing the IFB. They think all are like First Baptist of Hammond or all are Lester Rolloff followers. This isn't the case. That would be like saying all presbytereans are PCA liberals and all ordain sodomites or women. When we know for a fact that most free presbytereans don't believe this. There is a huge difference between Ian Paisley and a local PCA pastor. So blanket statements about IFB are also wrong. Granted there are some IFb churches who are almost cults but to say all IFers are the same is nonsense.[/quote]

I suppose I am in the dark on this one...b/c I don't know the difference between a "Free Presbyterian" and a "Presbyterian". :ideas:

candlelight

[tired]

FP is still calvinists but for the most part they preach the gospel and take a fundemental stand close with most IFB churches. The PCA types usually infant baptise and many are allowing women deacons and pastors and homosexuals to be ordained. Not all PCA churches do this, but most of them in my area do. I was just saying you just can't make a blanket generalization on a denomination unless the denominations doctrine is heresy. Like rcc, mormons, jehovah witnesses and the like. There are some SBC churches I have been in that you would definately say they are IFB. So some here will judge all IFB members to be the same and they are in churches that are the same way.

[Guest Guest]

[quote="tired"]FP is still calvinists but for the most part they preach the gospel and take a fundemental stand close with most IFB churches. The PCA types usually infant baptise and many are allowing women deacons and pastors and homosexuals to be ordained. Not all PCA churches do this, but most of them in my area do. I was just saying you just can't make a blanket generalization on a denomination unless the denominations doctrine is heresy. Like rcc, mormons, jehovah witnesses and the like. There are some SBC churches I have been in that you would definately say they are IFB. So some here will judge all IFB members to be the same and they are in churches that are the same way.[/quote]

Thank you, Tired. :thumb There is an SBC church just southwest of where I live that is identical to an IFB church. In fact...we have an evangelist and his wife that come up from Georgia. Every year he preaches at my IFB church and at the SBC church that I mentioned. :wave: It is sad where I live b/c when I was searching...the Presbyterian church here in town has taken out creationism from their doctrine. Also, the preacher's wife recruits kids from the public school where she teaches music. Many of the school events are in the Presbyterian church. This is all that I know. Now, years ago...this church held true to the KJV 1611 AV. Many things have changed due to Satan...all over.

candlelight

[Jerry]

[quote="matie-k"]Believe me, I know firsthand that one of the main ifb distinctives is "separation from brother/sisters who's doctrine isn't quite as "pure" as yours". I and my husband happen to agree with much of what Kevin says around here, but I don't feel it's my place as a woman to debate it out especially with other men. I long for sweet fellowship and unity in the joy of the Lord.[/quote]

The only way we can have unity with Kevin on many issues is to jettison our standards and convictions - which I am not willing to do.

[kevinmiller]

Thanks for the posts Katie and John, I appreciate it. :smile

I didn't come on her to spread division. The fact is, when I first came on here, I believed similarly to many of the people here. It was only after I began challenging what I believed against Scripture that my mind began to change on many things. I think it's a shame when you feel like you have to have the exact standards as someone to have fellowship with them. That's really such a sad line of reasoning, IMO. What sweet fellowship you are missing out on. I have a lot of incredible friends who don't agree with me on everything but we can have sweet fellowship together. Do we compromise to get it? Not at all. In fact, we can actually discuss spiritual issues together and maybe even have a friendly debate like I "try" to have on here. We present our positions, discuss our views on the Scripture regarding it and laugh about it when we're finished. That's true unity, not being carbon cut-outs of each other.

To clarify one minor thing that Tired said, it is the PCUSA church that has turned away from many Biblical truths, such as homosexuality and women pastors. The PCA church, on the other hand, is the conservative, howbeit much smaller, branch of the American Presbyterian church. Still, you will find that many individual churches do not hold to the same views as the leadership and there is still great diversity among them.

I think it's such a shame that a church that has a lot of good doctrinal areas is so quick to shoot fellow Christians in the back when they don't fit into the IFB mold. "Don't study the Bible for yourself, unless you're going to agree with the Baptist view of it" is how I feel when it comes to IFB's. Such an emphasis on being Bible only and yet you'll be attacked if you actually use your own mind to interpret it. :sad

[Guest Guest]

I didn't come on her to spread division. The fact is, when I first came on here, I believed similarly to many of the people here. It was only after I began challenging what I believed against Scripture that my mind began to change on many things.

And that is the sad thing. You once knew what we believe to be biblical truths, and then you turned away from then. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do about that. Every man must chose what he believes, but considering this forum is IFB and we have a certain degree of doctrinal unity among the majority at least, you can hardly expect us to be very happy with your choices. After all, much of what you have promoted are things we have fervently struggled against in the past, and things we will continue to war against in the future.

We present our positions, discuss our views on the Scripture regarding it and laugh about it when we're finished. That's true unity, not being carbon cut-outs of each other.

On some things yes, and you will see that on OLB, but on other things no.

I think it's such a shame that a church that has a lot of good doctrinal areas is so quick to shoot fellow Christians in the back when they don't fit into the IFB mold. "Don't study the Bible for yourself, unless you're going to agree with the Baptist view of it" is how I feel when it comes to IFB's. Such an emphasis on being Bible only and yet you'll be attacked if you actually use your own mind to interpret it.

We didn't leave you kevin, you left us.... If you ever want to come back, we are right where you left us...

[JerryNumbers]

Jerry, the sad thing is those who take up for him only encourage him . Seems we have many here that do not understand and or just plain do not know Baptist distinctives the least bit.

But that does not surprise me, many church members no matter what church they belong to, know little of what the church they attend stand for. Sad to say many of these people are teaching classes and turning out students who only know of acceptance.

[kevinmiller]

At least some Christians still believe in encouraging the brethren.

If you were right on the issues that we disagree on, you'd be the last one to convince me because of the way you go about it. Criticism and hatefulness doesn't get anyone anywhere.

[JerryNumbers]

Did you ever read this?

"Online Baptist a KJV site

A site for Independent, Fundamental Baptist believers
to fellowship and uplift our Lord."

By the way, I believe it is posted on every page on this site.

Its very plain that you completely disagree with what this board stands for. It is very plain that your not anywhere close to being a Independent Fundamental Baptist.

I would love to encourage you, but with what you post on this board, its wrong, one does not encourage wrong, but rebuke it. But its quite clear, you hate to be rebuked by your elders.

I read in part, on your blog, where you got run off from one board because you disagreed with everyone. As the other Jerry said, it seems you want to bring division to this board. I suppose that is the reason you got run off from that other board. What you love to do is to bring arguments to this board. If you didn't you would not keep brining up the same things that you have already been told was not proper Bible teachings.

[dwayner79]

That's true unity' date=' not being carbon cut-outs of each other. [/quote'] :thumb Unity != uniformity