7 reasons why people leave church

[speerjp1]

Why cant some IFB's and IFB churches change and better themselves to become more like Christ in a more personal way? Instead it seems that we want everyone to walk through the door and just accept us for who we are instead of listening to people and changing some things that make us look like the bad guys. Not biblical things but attitudes etc... Ever had a preacher carry on about womens dress while his wife has short hair? That is the kinda stuff that turns people away from fundamentalism. Why accept something that bears little meaning in winning souls just to push people away. Why should I wear pants and a tie to church when it is 100 degress out and the PAstor is to cheap to turn on the air conditioner and frowns if you ask to? Its easy for me I wear shorts and a nice polo so I can focus on the Spirit and not how hot it is. If someone is unsaved and listening to you harp on little meaningless things like a perfect suit and tie or hair length or a new Christian who has tats and has to hear how bad it is' date=',, Those are the things that push people away why. When Hyles was preaching times were different but we hold so much into the traditions and standards of those days but when he was preaching those were none the less new ideas new ways for that time. When will there be new ideas for Fundamental Independant Bible Believers today? You come into church how wever you want when you leave the main goal should be the salvation of a lost soul.[/quote']

You have a perverted view of true fundamentalism.

There goes the baby. (with the bathwater)

Why do you insist on the abandonment of fundamentalism in the face of radicalism instead of calling for those who've overstepped their bounds to return to Biblical fundamentalism?

[Guest Guest]

By bashing them you present a distorted view to the lost about Christ and are in yourself not a Christ like example. They are sins but do they keep you from salvation? If you are saved and committ them do you become unsaved? No So why bash? Why not go after the devil instead of the sinner? That is my philosphy. People who belong to the RCC can be saved you were saved and are a sinner you sin everyday but you would not like it if someone bashed you at church everytime you walked into the door and then covered it with "If you call me a liar then your calling God a liar" or something else like that which makes us look like we are bashing them on Gods behalf for the sake of the sinner. He does the convicting not me nor should you. Separation is biblical for the individual believer. [/bible]If you can go to a bar and not drink and seek to present the Gospel to an Alcoholic then why not? Did Christ only allow certain people into his study group? He is the example for separation he lived the example. Why not follow Christs lead. He reached out to sinners in a non "bashing" way. I never said anything goes but the bible clearly teaches that a sin to one is not necessarily a sin to another. I have been over Separation with some of the most studied biblical men and the most biblical one the Holy Spirit and to me and the conviction the Spirit gives me is to love, be obedient to him and his word, he is always with, when I make a mistake he convicts not the church the first time I walk in the door. I am just as Baptist as you are but I would rather follow Christs example over a humans any day.

[Guest Guest]

Fundamentalism is relevant but to put it before Christ is wrong. Why not take the ideals of true BIBLICAL Fundamentism and better it for the sake of Christ's kingdom not ours?
The feel I get is that you put being Baptist before Christ and you should put Christ first and Baptist ideology second and then he can grow his church.

[John81]

tank,

It's true there are some very hypocritical IFB churches out there and some of them fail to show the love of Christ to the world. However, that's not true of all IFB churches, or of all conservative churches in general.

I don't look down upon the lost nor do I attack them because of their sins. If a lost person comes to our church with green hair and they are covered in tattoos I'm sure plenty of people will look at them strangely, but they would be treated politely and welcomed.

Anything Scripture speaks on is something God intends the followers of Christ to live by. Scripture teaches women are to have long hair and men are to have short hair. That's not necessary for salvation and it's not something that would typically need to be addressed to a lost person.

That said, it's appropriate for a pastor to preach on the subject because it's a part of the Word of God for us to live by. Now if a pastor happens to preach against short hair yet his wife has short hair, that's wrong; just as wrong as if he preached against beer but drank one each Saturday night. A pastor is to live what he preaches and if a pastor preaches.

Issues regarding how a person should live after they come to Christ are matters of discipleship.

Issues regarding salvation is what is needed for the person who is yet lost in their sins.

You may have had some bad experiences with some IFBs but not all are like that and it's not right for you to post as if they are.

[tired]

I would rather be divided by truth than united by error.
2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

[John81]

I would rather be divided by truth than united by error.
2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

:amen:

[JerryNumbers]

I would rather be divided by truth than united by error.
2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Amen, sees what he wants is every one to practice acceptance.


Thank, There is a big difference in bashing and pointing someone towards the truth. Accepting those who depend on a false gospel will not lead them to correct their errors, it will just lead them to hell.

3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Amos 3:3 (KJV)

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
2 Thess 3:14-15 (KJV)

One thing for sure, the RCC does not obey God's Word.

[kevinmiller]

That's a bad thing?

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:21-23

"Therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, "When he ascended up on high, he led captivity to captive, and gave gifts unto men." (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the of the fulness of Christ." Ephesians 4:1-13

God sounds pretty ecumenical to me.

Separation from the world, yes. Not separation from other Christians because they worship God the way David described in Psalm 150 (he talked about stringed instruments, cymbals, dancing, loud music, etc...no piano mentioned). Not separation from other Christians because they have different convictions about dress. Not separation from other Christians because they disagree with your ideas on the book of Ruth as it relates to the red heifer and the book of Revelation. *sigh* :ooops

Can I add to this?

Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For

[JerryNumbers]

No, you don't see ecumenical no where in those verses. But what you do is ignore those verse that tells you to separate from those who do not hold to Bible truths.


3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Amos 3:3 (KJV)

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
2 Thess 3:14-15 (KJV)

But I understand where your coming from, you don't know any better for you have failed to study the Bible where you can divide the word of the truth. You even reject solid Bible teachings to keep on brining your ecumenicalism to this Baptist message board.

[kevinmiller]

No, you don't see ecumenical no where in those verses. But what you do is ignore those verse that tells you to separate from those who do not hold to Bible truths.


3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Amos 3:3 (KJV)

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
2 Thess 3:14-15 (KJV)

But I understand where your coming from, you don't know any better for you have failed to study the Bible where you can divide the word of the truth. You even reject solid Bible teachings to keep on brining your ecumenicalism to this Baptist message board.

Could you tell me how I should be interpreting those verses then? I believe in believing the Bible as it says it.

The first verse that you posted is talking about a Christian and a non-Christian. A Christian and a non-Christian are at opposite ends of the spectrum and cannot fellowship together. If we were to interpret that verse as you think it should be interpreted, then we couldn't fellowship with anyone at all. The problem is that you only want to take so far, only to exclude people who's beliefs are particularly offensive in your mind. If you take it to its logical conclusion, you must also separate from those who disagree with you on the color of the carpet in the sanctuary or how many deacons to appoint, and many people do.

The second verse is talking about rejecting what Paul wrote in that letter. It also directly follows Paul telling them how to deal with a disorderly brother, which makes logical sense since there is little in the way of actual doctrine in the short book of 2 Thessalonians.

Can you show me where you got the information on my Bible study habits, I'd like to check up on your source since it seems rather sketchy. Can you also explain to me why your belief is automatically the right belief and those who arrive at different conclusions must not have studied their Bible enough? If you are so sure of your conclusions, please explain the verses that I posted on unity in detail, if you don't mind.

[Jerry]

They are sins but do they keep you from salvation?

Actually, they do. Roman Catholicism is a false, works-based, idolatrous religion - that will not lead someone to the truth - it will blind them to it.

And homosexuality is quite clearly a sin that must be repented of in order to be saved (so to not repent of it would keep someone from salvation):

Romans 1:25-28 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

[JerryNumbers]

Could you tell me how I should be interpreting those verses then? I believe in believing the Bible as it says it.

The first verse that you posted is talking about a Christian and a non-Christian. A Christian and a non-Christian are at opposite ends of the spectrum and cannot fellowship together. If we were to interpret that verse as you think it should be interpreted, then we couldn't fellowship with anyone at all. The problem is that you only want to take so far, only to exclude people who's beliefs are particularly offensive in your mind. If you take it to its logical conclusion, you must also separate from those who disagree with you on the color of the carpet in the sanctuary or how many deacons to appoint, and many people do.

The second verse is talking about rejecting what Paul wrote in that letter. It also directly follows Paul telling them how to deal with a disorderly brother, which makes logical sense since there is little in the way of actual doctrine in the short book of 2 Thessalonians.

Can you show me where you got the information on my Bible study habits, I'd like to check up on your source since it seems rather sketchy. Can you also explain to me why your belief is automatically the right belief and those who arrive at different conclusions must not have studied their Bible enough? If you are so sure of your conclusions, please explain the verses that I posted on unity in detail, if you don't mind.

How do I know your lack of study, by the views you post on this board that are not Bible views.

Your views fits right in with the false teachers of this world.

I know you do not like that, but you asked me, so I gave you an honest answer, nothing less, plus the other Jerry has pointed it out to you as well.

You take Holy Scriptures, isolate them, and use them to mean just what you want them to, regardless of what any other Holy Scriptures says about the subject.

What you teach on this board is acceptances of sin and sins. God accepts the repentant heart. That is the one who admits to "ALL" his or her sins. That is agree with God what is a sin and what is not a sin.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:15 (KJV)

You have not learned to divide the word of truth. You can study the Bible all day and all night, until you learn to divide the word of truth, you will not walk in the truth.

Your so accepting to those who violate this verse.

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
2 Thess 3:14-15 (KJV)

Please notice the last part of verse 15. That is exactly what the other Jerry and I are doing.

[Guest Guest]

Actually, they do. Roman Catholicism is a false, works-based, idolatrous religion - that will not lead someone to the truth - it will blind them to it.

And homosexuality is quite clearly a sin that must be repented of in order to be saved (so to not repent of it would keep someone from salvation):

Romans 1:25-28 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Hi Tank. :smile Jerry is 100% accurate. These verses speak the truth NOT some myth.

candlelight

[kevinmiller]

I was going to respond to this but I've decided against it. It's not worth the frustration and I've debated with you far too much to know that you are only willing to address those things that are easy to attack rather than getting to the crux of the matter. It's far better to enjoy the Christian love and fellowship that I have here than to allow myself to get frustrated on OB by things that aren't even worth my time. I wish more people could truly enjoy Christianity and fellow Christians.

[speerjp1]

I was going to respond to this but I've decided against it. It's not worth the frustration and I've debated with you far too much to know that you are only willing to address those things that are easy to attack rather than getting to the crux of the matter. It's far better to enjoy the Christian love and fellowship that I have here than to allow myself to get frustrated on OB by things that aren't even worth my time. I wish more people could truly enjoy Christianity and fellow Christians.

Is it really?

Is that the most important thing laid out for the New Testament church to fulfill?

Brotherly love is an important aspect of Godly living, but there is a time to separate from certain brethren; there is never a time to separate from God's word or the principles taught therein.

We can't put the brethren above the Savior or pleasing God.