In a Local church who is supposed to get paid?

[BrotherTony]

11 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

I’m probably going overboard about this, more then the average Christian. I’m sorry, I’m trying to point out, we need to watch out, on how we are running and using His tithes, and offering. We can become blind to how we are using it. We need to manage it well, like the 3 the Lord gave money to invest, not to bury the tithes (talent) into the ground. To later just give it back to Him.

I understand what you're saying, but, again, that parable is for individuals, not for the churches. Context and content are necessary, Morales, and you're not using either correctly here. It's up to each individual church body to decide how they spend the tithes. And, each church is accountable for itself, so, I wouldn't be worrying much about what doesn't concern me. Just a hint.

[TheGloryLand]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

I understand what you're saying, but, again, that parable is for individuals, not for the churches. Context and content are necessary, Morales, and you're not using either correctly here. It's up to each individual church body to decide how they spend the tithes. And, each church is accountable for itself, so, I wouldn't be worrying much about what doesn't concern me. Just a hint.

That is true, it does not concern me. But I believe, this is not in the Bible, churches that do not have good ministration of its tithes and offering, are robbing God. For it was in trusted to the leaders, to do so. I personally, will not tithe or give my offerings to a church, if what they are doing openly is wrong. Supporting things that are political non biblical with the tithes. The pastors new jet, example.

[Jim_Alaska]

TGL you are forgetting that many times members give "special" offerings for things that the church budget doesn't cover. Our members raised over $17,000 for material for a new roof through special offerings.

And even beside that, church finances are to be used for ANY church expenses, even if YOU don't approve of it. That is why we are Independent, we get to vote on what we want money spent for. Our church's covenant states that any expenses over $500 must be put to a vote if they are not recurring utility expenses or mortgage expenses. I other words, "extras" must be voted on.

This is why you can't and shouldn't criticize other churches spending, you just don't know how they are set up to handle finances.

[BrotherTony]

21 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

That is true, it does not concern me. But I believe, this is not in the Bible,

And therefore, it's left up to each individual congregation how they feel the Lord wants them to distribute/spend that tithe and offering. I think you're spending a lot of time worrying about other people's churches when it doesn't affect you. You're not accountable for them...their members and leadership are. I'd humbly advise you let it go. 

churches that do not have good ministration of its tithes and offering, are robbing God.

Are you in the position to tell each church that they aren't administering the funds appropriately? Do you know their situation, their programs, their heart? 

For it was in trusted to the leaders, to do so. I personally, will not tithe or give my offerings to a church, if what they are doing openly is wrong. Supporting things that are political non biblical with the tithes. The pastors new jet, example.

Your not giving tithes is up to you and between you and God alone. How do you KNOW what they are doing is wrong? I think I'd be concerned with your own church and not another body. Personally, I don't like a church to be involved in politics. Yes, a pastor can preach on the issues according to what Scripture teaches, but, he shouldn't be telling people how to vote. Yet, we also find that in many African American churches here in the United States that politics is a HUGE part of the service, and where the tithes and offerings go. They usually preach a "social Gospel" instead of the Gospel of Christ. There are some that are good, sound churches and preach the Word, but, many do not. I've attended many black churches that make me cringe, but, then again , many that have blessed me spiritually. Where in the world would a pastors new jet enter in to this? You're apparently referring to the prosperity Gospel taught by "pastors" like Osteen.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by BrotherTony

[TheGloryLand]

52 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

 

Morality and practical common sense. 

[TheGloryLand]

8 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

TGL you are forgetting that many times members give "special" offerings for things that the church budget doesn't cover. Our members raised over $17,000 for material for a new roof through special offerings.

And even beside that, church finances are to be used for ANY church expenses, even if YOU don't approve of it. That is why we are Independent, we get to vote on what we want money spent for. Our church's covenant states that any expenses over $500 must be put to a vote if they are not recurring utility expenses or mortgage expenses. I other words, "extras" must be voted on.

This is why you can't and shouldn't criticize other churches spending, you just don't know how they are set up to handle finances.

I support this, and special offering not just for facilities repairs, like roof and storms damage. I support special offering for guests preacher. But, I visited churches that don’t take votes for spending. They are just spending then inform what was done. Why in this case, not yours, vote. Example purchase of a vehicle, then asking the members to vote if they agree on it, but they already have the vehicle. The church does it, whether you agree or not. 

[BrotherTony]

On 3/6/2023 at 4:30 AM, TheGloryLand said:

Morality and practical common sense. 

Your answer makes no sense, TGL.

On 3/6/2023 at 5:14 AM, TheGloryLand said:

I support this, and special offering not just for facilities repairs, like roof and storms damage. I support special offering for guests preacher. But, I visited churches that don’t take votes for spending. They are just spending then inform what was done. Why in this case, not yours, vote. Example purchase of a vehicle, then asking the members to vote if they agree on it, but they already have the vehicle. The church does it, whether you agree or not. 

I've never been a member of a church like this. I've never really seen a church that has done this. I'm sure there are some out there that do this kind of thing, but, I believe it's a rarity. 

[TheGloryLand]

On 3/6/2023 at 5:17 AM, BrotherTony said:

Your answer makes no sense, TGL.

I've never been a member of a church like this. I've never really seen a church that has done this. I'm sure there are some out there that do this kind of thing, but, I believe it's a rarity. 

I hope so, maybe we can see if others seen this happening in there’s. But the bigger problem is many members don’t even go to the meetings.

The last financial meeting I went to regarding the budget for the whole year, lasted maybe 20 minutes. I had many questions, but since I was the only one that would ask a question, I stayed quiet. I believe members that ask questions are normally looked at as, troublemakers. Sadly 

[BrotherTony]

37 minutes ago, TheGloryLand said:

I hope so, maybe we can see if others seen this happening in there’s. But the bigger problem is many members don’t even go to the meetings.

The last financial meeting I went to regarding the budget for the whole year, lasted maybe 20 minutes. I had many questions, but since I was the only one that would ask a question, I stayed quiet. I believe members that ask questions are normally looked at as, troublemakers. Sadly 

Morales, the purpose of a business meeting is to ask questions. You shouldn't be timid about asking things. You may find that some other people have the same one. If you're looked on as a "trouble-maker" who cares? It's every congregant's right and obligation to discuss the budget and any concerns. 

[TheGloryLand]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

Morales, the purpose of a business meeting is to ask questions. You shouldn't be timid about asking things. You may find that some other people have the same one. If you're looked on as a "trouble-maker" who cares? It's every congregant's right and obligation to discuss the budget and any concerns. 

This is true, but in person it is much harder to do. I feel that it is much easier to talk about it on here, which doesn’t really help anything. Bro. Tony, would you agree with me that when these meetings are holding a financial meeting, many of the church members don’t even show up. When Churches that have members, that don’t attend the meetings, it much easier for the church to do whatever they want. I’m not saying that all churches are not doing things wrong with the tithing, it could makes it easier for them to do wrong. When their members are not paying attention. Many are people are easily brain washed, when following false leaders. There are some of those around too,

[TheGloryLand]

I’ll like to go back, to the topic, who should get paid for serving in the local church. If there are anymore comments.

[Jim_Alaska]

On 3/4/2023 at 4:31 PM, PastorMatt said:

The robbing God verse is not talking about the church, but the individual. 

Yes, and even more important to TGL's post is that this verse is specifically talking about the priests, not just individuals. Because of what these priests were doing, the whole nation was cursed.

Malachi 2:1 (KJV) And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

Malachi 3:8 (KJV) Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Malachi 3:9 (KJV) Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

This is true, but in person it is much harder to do. I feel that it is much easier to talk about it on here, which doesn’t really help anything. Bro. Tony, would you agree with me that when these meetings are holding a financial meeting, many of the church members don’t even show up. When Churches that have members, that don’t attend the meetings, it much easier for the church to do whatever they want. I’m not saying that all churches are not doing things wrong with the tithing, it could makes it easier for them to do wrong. When their members are not paying attention. Many are people are easily brain washed, when following false leaders. There are some of those around too,

I've found in the past that most members who don't show up for the business meetings probably don't belong there in the first place. They usually don't tithe, they don't give offerings, and they don't volunteer for things in the church when folks are needed to assist. These are the kind of "members" that are members in name only. They don't seem to care what happens in the church until it's something that they want or don't want to happen. It's a sad truth that many members more than likely don't even know the Lord. There is no sign of growth in their "Christian" life, and they don't seem to love the things of the Lord. Now concerning doing things wrong with the tithe, I'm convinced that most pastors, deacons, treasurers, and true church "members" are wanting to do what is right. 

I will agree that there are many "false leaders" in the churches, but, I believe they are few and far between. And I will agree that these false leaders are helping to bring judgment on us all, not just the churches that they are "shepherds" of. What they preach and teach affects us in insomuch that their members go out and help propagate the same ideology that their shepherd has. 

[HappyChristian]

Who should get paid? Well, we all agree the pastor should. The Bible does say that the laborer is worthy of his hire, therefore the church should take good care of their pastor (that doesn't mean cadillacs and mansions, but it does mean taking care of the pastor so that he isn't living below the poverty level - far too many churches think it's spiritual to keep the pastor "humble" by giving him next to nothing).

After that, it would be up to the congregation. Pastors will bring the need of assistants, youth pastors, secretaries, accountants, etc, to the church and suggest hiring them...unless the church has given the pastor carte blanche in hiring needs.

I don't agree that paying someone means they'll be faithful and work harder. If they aren't faithful BEFORE getting paid, they don't deserve being hired. If they aren't a hard worker BEFORE they're paid, they won't be after. I am not paid by our church, but I guarantee I'm a hard worker and I'm faithful. As is our son, who doesn't get paid either (unless he does construction style work that the church has voted to pay him for); our DIL does not get paid. They are both faithful. Our ushers don't get paid, but they are faithful. And on and on... Members need to be taught to serve the Lord, not work for money. That's what their day jobs are for.

The breakdown of how an independent church spends its money is the business of that church and nobody else's. And that would include bbqs and fun. Church is not just about coming together to study God's Word. It is also a time of fellowship, which can and does include fun and bbqs. 

[TheGloryLand]

3 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

Who should get paid? Well, we all agree the pastor should. The Bible does say that the laborer is worthy of his hire, therefore the church should take good care of their pastor (that doesn't mean cadillacs and mansions, but it does mean taking care of the pastor so that he isn't living below the poverty level - far too many churches think it's spiritual to keep the pastor "humble" by giving him next to nothing).

After that, it would be up to the congregation. Pastors will bring the need of assistants, youth pastors, secretaries, accountants, etc, to the church and suggest hiring them...unless the church has given the pastor carte blanche in hiring needs.

I don't agree that paying someone means they'll be faithful and work harder. If they aren't faithful BEFORE getting paid, they don't deserve being hired. If they aren't a hard worker BEFORE they're paid, they won't be after. I am not paid by our church, but I guarantee I'm a hard worker and I'm faithful. As is our son, who doesn't get paid either (unless he does construction style work that the church has voted to pay him for); our DIL does not get paid. They are both faithful. Our ushers don't get paid, but they are faithful. And on and on... Members need to be taught to serve the Lord, not work for money. That's what their day jobs are for.

The breakdown of how an independent church spends its money is the business of that church and nobody else's. And that would include bbqs and fun. Church is not just about coming together to study God's Word. It is also a time of fellowship, which can and does include fun and bbqs. 

When it comes to paying the pastor of a church, should they get paid a flat rate, or by the number of members. The more members, the more he gets paid. With no ending what that could be. Example; 300 members $75,000 a year, 600 members hundred members $150,000 a year. Now, I know it’s up to the church and its members, but is it right or wrong, to pay him, like this in your opinion?