"New" discoveries?

[heartstrings]

First, a disclaimer: I don't know who the narrator is and I don't agree with the Bible versions he is using. I also don't know anything about Steven Furtik either. But what caught my interest was everything after the 3:40 mark.    https://fb.watch/gZYqXC14cW/

A few things I've discovered in my own studies:

Jephthah most likely treated his daughter in line with the provision of the "singular vow" given in Leviticus 27.

Barak, in the Book of Judges, was not some wimpy coward who needed a woman to protect him, but instead wanted Deborah to go along because he wanted the presence of God in the battle, didn't care that he would receive no glory for the battle, and was therefore eventually named among the "heroes of faith" in Hebrews chapter 11.

I was taught, in a Baptist church, that "angels cohabited with women" in Genesis 6, to which I discovered otherwise.

i was also taught that 'angels" presented themselves before God's throne in Heaven in Job 1:7 and 2:1 . However I found that no throne, no Heaven, and no angels are mentioned anywhere in either passage, and discovered that Abraham, Moses, and David also did things "before the Lord".

My pastor also taught that Black people were forever destined to be slaves because of Noah's curse, but a little Bible study found that is simply not true either.

Also, I have some Biblical evidence to believe that Job chapter 38 verses 1-7 refer to a future event and, to me this has mind blowing implications.

Imagine if you had been raised in a Pentecostal church, read your Bible and discovered that today's "tongues" are fake or that Salvation is secure? Or what if you came up in a Calvinist church where you were taught that God saves some and dooms others before they were even born simply at his own whim, and you "discovered" that was hogwash? As the narrator above says, the Bible is true, but our understanding is flawed. There are many "new" things we'll never know until we get in there and dig for the "gold" ourselves. As to what Steven Furtik said here: Yes that is what Mark 6:5 says. Remember when Jesus said that He didn't even know when the rapture would be?(paraphrased) well. if he said he could "do no mighty works" maybe it was probably because God has limited Himself even in some ways. He can't sin, for instance. The Bible is such a vast book of knowledge with many "new things" and secrets left to be uncovered; look at all that wisdom in the Book of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes etc.. But of course our "discoveries" should always agree with the rest of scripture. Again, I know practically nothing about Steven Furtik and have no idea where he was going with the scripture reference, he may indeed be a raving heretic for all I know. Just thought what the narrator said was interesting. Anyway, rambling rant over.

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by heartstrings

[BrotherTony]

Much of what Steven Furtick preaches is problematic. I had several friends ask me to listen to a cluster of sermons they sent me to, and I listened. On the surface, much of what he says SOUNDS plausible and Scriptural, but when you listen more closely and compare scripture with scripture, it's not at all doctrinally sound. His rock and roll lifestyle and promotion of his sons lifestyle of the same is problematic. He seems to want to be as close to the world as he can be but still look "Christian." 

[heartstrings]

2 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Much of what Steven Furtick preaches is problematic. I had several friends ask me to listen to a cluster of sermons they sent me to, and I listened. On the surface, much of what he says SOUNDS plausible and Scriptural, but when you listen more closely and compare scripture with scripture, it's not at all doctrinally sound. His rock and roll lifestyle and promotion of his sons lifestyle of the same is problematic. He seems to want to be as close to the world as he can be but still look "Christian." 

Unfortunately, that doesn't surprise me at all. An old preacher used to say something like "rat poison is mostly good wholesome corn"; it's that tiny percentage of poison that kills the rat.

[Jerry]

Whoever told you Job 38:1-7 refers to the future sold you a false bill of goods, as can easily be shown by comparing parallel passages:

Job 38:1-7 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

The foundations of the earth were laid on day three of creation week:

Genesis 1:9-10, 13 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good... And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Psalm 104:2-5 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain: Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind: Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire: Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Here is the exact same order of events and reference to the creation of the angels just prior to this point (ie. they had to be created by or before day three in order for ALL of them to rejoice in that part of God's creation - also, that also means none had fallen yet, as ALL of them rejoiced).

In the Scriptures, sons of God is a reference to unfallen or righteous beings. Adam in Luke 3:38 was directed created by God and was called a son of God before he fell, and after the Lord put away his sin in Genesis 4 (verse 26 makes reference to men calling upon the name of the Lord - ie. being saved - and I believe those are who are referenced in chapter six compromising with the lost daughters of men, and intermarrying them). Christians are recreated, born again individually and righteous before God. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God - His physical body was created directly by God. The fallen angels are never referred to as sons of God - though Job 1-2 and 38 teaches the angels were ALL called that when first created and before they fell.

Also, there are no Scriptures that teach any of the OT saints came and presented themselves before the Lord in heaven. In the New Testament, Satan (whose name means adversary) is called the accuser of the brethren, and the name Devil means slanderer, accuser.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Jerry

[heartstrings]

19 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Whoever told you Job 38:1-7 refers to the future sold you a false bill of goods, as can easily be shown by comparing parallel passages:

Job 38:1-7 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

The foundations of the earth were laid on day three of creation week:

Genesis 1:9-10, 13 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good... And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Psalm 104:2-5 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain: Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind: Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire: Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Here is the exact same order of events and reference to the creation of the angels just prior to this point (ie. they had to be created by or before day three in order for ALL of them to rejoice in that part of God's creation - also, that also means none had fallen yet, as ALL of them rejoiced).

In the Scriptures, sons of God is a reference to unfallen or righteous beings. Adam in Luke 3:38 was directed created by God and was called a son of God before he fell, and after the Lord put away his sin in Genesis 4 (verse 26 makes reference to men calling upon the name of the Lord - ie. being saved - and I believe those are who are referenced in chapter six compromising with the lost daughters of men, and intermarrying them). Christians are recreated, born again individually and righteous before God. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God - His physical body was created directly by God. The fallen angels are never referred to as sons of God - though Job 1-2 and 38 teaches the angels were ALL called that when first created and before they fell.

Also, there are no Scriptures that teach any of the OT saints came and presented themselves before the Lord in heaven. In the New Testament, Satan (whose name means adversary) is called the accuser of the brethren, and the name Devil means slanderer, accuser.

The planet, earth, is a spherical ball of molten rock and metal covered by a relatively thin crust. There is no physical "cornerstone" in a ball of magma. Maybe the "cornerstone" could be the Sinai Peninsula" since it's kind of triangle shaped? I leave that for another discussion. Job 38:1-7 is using builder's terms and they are metaphorical. But nothing in the passage gives a time for the occurrence of mention.

I could ask my 8 year old and 11 yo grand daughters or 14yo grandson where they were when God created the earth. One or all of them would likely say "papa, that's easy....I wasn't born yet." Does that answer require the wisdom and understanding that God asked of Job for the answer? Do you see anywhere that Job gave an answer to that question?

Know why? Because Job did not have the necessary wisdom nor the understanding to answer it because Job did not have the complete Word of God like we do.

"All" of the "sons of God" were (will be) there, after the rapture, in the city of Zion. (they already were from God's perspective) Had Job possessed the wisdom and the understanding to answer God's question "where wast thou", he would have answered "I was there"

And nobody "sold me a bill of goods" I came up with all that heresy by myself. 

[Jerry]

Good for you. Regardless, God chose the word foundations, not me. The context of Genesis 1, Job 38, and Psalm 104 clearly show that it is referring to the separation of the lands/earth from the seas - and that happened on the third day of creation.

And to clarify, the context is showing Job was not there at that time, but the sons of God were - and that third day was approximately 6000 years in the past during creation week, not on some future day that hasn't happened yet.

1 hour ago, heartstrings said:

And nobody "sold me a bill of goods" I came up with all that heresy by myself.

Often, when someone comes up with something completely new, never before seen in the Bible, usually they are wrong. The Lord God is not hiding His Word (or the understanding thereof) from His children - so for no one else to arrive at your conclusion until between 3500-4000 years after the book of Job was written, I would be concerned about your perception of that passage!!

[heartstrings]

15 hours ago, Jerry said:

Good for you. Regardless, God chose the word foundations, not me. The context of Genesis 1, Job 38, and Psalm 104 clearly show that it is referring to the separation of the lands/earth from the seas - and that happened on the third day of creation.

And to clarify, the context is showing Job was not there at that time, but the sons of God were - and that third day was approximately 6000 years in the past during creation week, not on some future day that hasn't happened yet.

Often, when someone comes up with something completely new, never before seen in the Bible, usually they are wrong. The Lord God is not hiding His Word (or the understanding thereof) from His children - so for no one else to arrive at your conclusion until between 3500-4000 years after the book of Job was written, I would be concerned about your perception of that passage!!

Proverbs says: " It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."        Even after 6000 years     I don't believe mankind has discovered all of God's "concealed things" nor nailed down every truth, else all true Christians could agree on on everything. For instance, experience tells me that you will likely disagree with me on the meaning of the following verse......     "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?" .....because the way it reads to me is, that no angel has ever been a "son of God.

15 hours ago, Jerry said:

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by heartstrings
Double post

[heartstrings]

On 11/23/2022 at 4:07 PM, Jerry said:

 

........Also, there are no Scriptures that teach any of the OT saints came and presented themselves before the Lord in heaven. In the New Testament, Satan (whose name means adversary) is called the accuser of the brethren, and the name Devil means slanderer, accuser.

 

Please read the following verse

And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. Genesis 18:22

It plainly says that Abraham was standing "before the Lord" too, but I do believe it was on this earth, not Heaven. Again, neither of the two Job narratives say that the "sons of God" or Satan were "in Heaven" as well.

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by heartstrings

[MikeWatson1]

At the moment I am still struggling with the view of the Trinity as three SEPERATE persona of God. 

 

I get they are distinct.. other-wise there wouldn't be Jesus talking to the Father.. or Jesus sending the Comforter etc...

But the view of them being seperate?   I can't follow that if we believe in Monotheism.

The traditional view of the Trinity with lines seperating the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.. and saying the Son is not the Father.. not the Holy Spirit etc..  I think the line between them is shadowed/dotted.  Not separated.

But in the end.. it helps me to think that God's plane of existence and view is far far far greater than ours.. and so we can't fully grasp how the one Triune God looks.  Like we are looking in 2d.. but God is 3 or 4d.

 

[TheGloryLand]

9 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

At the moment I am still struggling with the view of the Trinity as three SEPERATE persona of God. 

 

I get they are distinct.. other-wise there wouldn't be Jesus talking to the Father.. or Jesus sending the Comforter etc...

But the view of them being seperate?   I can't follow that if we believe in Monotheism.

The traditional view of the Trinity with lines seperating the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.. and saying the Son is not the Father.. not the Holy Spirit etc..  I think the line between them is shadowed/dotted.  Not separated.

But in the end.. it helps me to think that God's plane of existence and view is far far far greater than ours.. and so we can't fully grasp how the one Triune God looks.  Like we are looking in 2d.. but God is 3 or 4d.

 

Still struggling, this is a good sign that you are getting closer.