differance between calling and genuine heart desire?

[preacher]

Can anyone explain the differance between the two, and give a bible referance?

[Jerry]

Please clarify what you are asking. The only thing that comes to mind based on the wording of your question is about the calling to be a pastor. I believe both are true of the person the Lord has truly called to that office in the local church - they also have a desire to be a pastor. The terms bishop, pastor, and elder are interchangeable in the NT when they are referring to the leadership of the local church.

1 Timothy 3:1  This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

1 Peter 5:1-2  The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

If you had something else in mind, please clarify it.

[Rando]

On 10/4/2022 at 11:22 AM, preacher said:

Can anyone explain the differance between the two, and give a bible referance?

I don't really think there is one.

The idea of a "calling" is, I think, somewhat a myth.

The Scriptures only speak in terms of a "desire"......and then qualifications.

I believe God's wisdom was perfect in this respect.  There is no way to argue with someone's "calling".  One can only note their desire and see whether they are qualified.  If someone is not qualified, it follows, then, that they are not "called".....

 

"Called to Preach" for instance, is, I think, something of an imperfect and confusing misnomer the Bible-Believer should divorce themselves from.

[BrotherTony]

8 hours ago, Rando said:

I don't really think there is one.

The idea of a "calling" is, I think, somewhat a myth.

The Scriptures only speak in terms of a "desire"......and then qualifications.

I believe God's wisdom was perfect in this respect.  There is no way to argue with someone's "calling".  One can only note their desire and see whether they are qualified.  If someone is not qualified, it follows, then, that they are not "called".....

 

"Called to Preach" for instance, is, I think, something of an imperfect and confusing misnomer the Bible-Believer should divorce themselves from.

I disagree...there are plenty of references to the "calling" of God. Just a few are listed below.

2 Timothy 1:9 - Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Matthew 22:14 - For many are called, but few are chosen.

John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 8:28-30 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.   (Read More...)

1 Corinthians 1:26 - For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

Jeremiah 33:3 - Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Luke 12:32 - Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

1 Timothy 1:12 - And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

1 Corinthians 7:17-24 - But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.   (Read More...)

Matthew 28:19-20 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:   (Read More...)

Isaiah 42:1-9 - Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.   (Read More...)

Luke 4:17-19 - And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 Peter 1:10 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

Romans 1:1 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Romans 1:7 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:1 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1 Corinthians 1:2 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

 

These are just a few examples. The following are on "desire." 

 

Proverbs 18:1 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.

 

Proverbs 19:22 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

The desire of a man is his kindness: and a poor man is better than a liar.

Philippians 4:17 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

1 Timothy 3:1 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

 

[TheGloryLand]

John.12

1. [17] The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.

 

Like Lazarus, we were all dead in our sins, and called by Christ the LORD. To bare witness of Him.

Edited October 15, 2022 by TheGloryLand
Spelling

[Rando]

I believe the poster was speaking in the sense of a "calling" to preach or to ministry.

Obviously, the word "call" and "calling" exist.

Obviously, they are used in Scripture.  They are in reference, however, to salvation, a corporate election of Israel etc etc..

If the poster is asking about a "calling" to ministry, however, as I believe they were, then, I stand by my original post.

[BrotherTony]

8 hours ago, Rando said:

I believe the poster was speaking in the sense of a "calling" to preach or to ministry.

Obviously, the word "call" and "calling" exist.

Obviously, they are used in Scripture.  They are in reference, however, to salvation, a corporate election of Israel etc etc..

If the poster is asking about a "calling" to ministry, however, as I believe they were, then, I stand by my original post.

How do you explain "Called" to be an apostle? That is a calling. It is a calling to PREACH. We are also called by his grace, and after receiving the gift of salvation are to "preach" (share) the gospel of Christ. This is a calling through our salvation and direct command by Christ to "go ye into all the world and preach the gospel." 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by BrotherTony

[Jerry]

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

My desire to preach was definitely a calling that I submitted to. In fact, it was NOT a desire at first. God had to do a work in me and bring me to that point. My response to it at first was rebellion, then a little bit later submission.

[Rando]

Quote

How do you explain "Called" to be an apostle? That is a calling. It is a calling to PREACH. We are also called by his grace, and after receiving the gift of salvation are to "preach" (share) the gospel of Christ. This is a calling through our salvation and direct command by Christ to "go ye into all the world and preach the gospel

When God calls an Independent Baptist in the modern era to be an apostle, that will be an entirely different discussion.

The "calling" to salvation both the general and specific "call" is not what the O.P. is about.

Similarly, the subsequent "calling" for all believers to preach the gospel upon their salvation is universal, and not what the O.P. is about.

[Rando]

 

Quote

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Has nothing to do with a "calling" to preach.

 

19 hours ago, Jerry said:

In fact, it was NOT a desire at first.

And yet, that is the clearest and most obvious manner in which the Scriptures speak of a man going into ministry, at least, specifically, the office of bishop.  The text, speaks of desire, our traditions speak of "calling".

I do not doubt, or even minimize your (rather common) experience, I'm just saying it is a story based upon personal and often shared experience which is not spelled out in the text in any meaningful sense.   We must only consult our own feelings emotions etc....for that experience.   We have no way to verify the validity of those personal experiences any more than a charismatic does.

One could utilize examples if we press the stories of O.T. prophets into service here, I suppose.  Thus, arguing that it is "Biblical" in some ways.  That's fair enough, as long as we don't press the similarities between preaching (and admittedly there are similarities) and the role of the OT prophet too far. 

My only concern is that we put too much stock in "calling" as opposed to desire and qualifications which are specifics the Scriptures give.

[Rando]

Quote

How do you explain "Called" to be an apostle?

By offering the humble suggestion that you are not Paul, and that Jesus has (most likely) not appeared to you audibly and in person to tell you that you are particularly special.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Rando

[Rando]

On 10/15/2022 at 5:13 PM, BrotherTony said:

How do you explain "Called" to be an apostle? That is a calling. It is a calling to PREACH. We are also called by his grace, and after receiving the gift of salvation are to "preach" (share) the gospel of Christ. This is a calling through our salvation and direct command by Christ to "go ye into all the world and preach the gospel." 

 

When hearing this brings you to tears.........

You have been called.

[Jerry]

Many religious people get emotional when they hear emotional music - that in itself is neither a sign of salvation or an indication of being called by God. That being said, He calls all of us through the Gospel.

I never cried when I heard the Gospel - though certainly through the years, many times tears have come to my eyes through soul-stirring preaching, yes sometimes through "Christian" music, and other times when conviction came about certain sins or even about the fact I am saved and am awed about His salvation.

[BrotherTony]

Emotionalism doesn't necessarily equate to a calling. Yes, some do become emotional over music, the Bible, etc., but for many it is also intellect. I am greatly affected by music, but, I try not to let music override the truth of the Scriptures and the moving of the Spirit of God in my life. 

[BrotherTony]

20 hours ago, Rando said:

By offering the humble suggestion that you are not Paul, and that Jesus has (most likely) not appeared to you audibly and in person to tell you that you are particularly special.

 

None of that was even implied in what I posted.