Bibles That Remove Or Confuse The Deity Of Christ

[Jerry]

BrotherTony asked me to show where some modern versions remove or change passages about the deity of Christ, hence this thread. Robert Bratcher who "translated" the Good News Bible did not believe Jesus was good, so his translation was done in such a way as to present his doctrinal stance. Here are some examples:

Acts 20:28 So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he made his own through the blood of his Son.

Does not declare God shed His own blood - therefore ruining a verse teaching Christ is both God and man, and that it was His blood that purchased our salvation.

1 Timothy 3:16 No one can deny how great is the secret of our religion: He appeared in human form, was shown to be right by the Spirit, and was seen by angels. He was preached among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, and was taken up to heaven.

HE appeared in human form - so did all of us! That doesn't mean it was God that was being referred to here.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Christ gave his life for us. We too, then, ought to give our lives for others!

The KJV says, Hereby we perceive the love of God, because HE laid down His life. Our Saviour is God.

Rev 1:8 “I am the first and the last,” says the Lord God Almighty, who is, who was, and who is to come.

Completely removes the reference to all three members of the Trinity, therefore showing Jesus' deity and equality with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Romans 9:5 they are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! Amen.

The KJV says "...Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever."

Isaiah 7:14 Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman who is pregnant will have a son and will name him ‘Immanuel.’

Messing with the virgin birth in a passage that states He is Immanuel, God With Us.

Micah 5:2 The Lord says, “Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose family line goes back to ancient times.”

Removes the reference to the eternality of the Messiah (and isn't actually talking about Him going back to ancient times, but His family line) - and only God is eternal.

This is a good place to start. I do not have all my modern versions at hand that I marked all the changes in so am using an online Bible site. I cannot remember all the major (ie. obvious, glaring) changes offhand. The site I used for the GNT (or TEV) is: https://www.biblegateway.com/ Feel free to suggest other passages.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Jerry

[Bro. West]

9 hours ago, Jerry said:

BrotherTony asked me to show where some modern versions remove or change passages about the deity of Christ, hence this thread. Robert Bratcher who "translated" the Good News Bible did not believe Jesus was good, so his translation was done in such a way as to present his doctrinal stance. Here are some examples:

Acts 20:28 So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he made his own through the blood of his Son.

Does not declare God shed His own blood - therefore ruining a verse teaching Christ is both God and man, and that it was His blood that purchased our salvation.

1 Timothy 3:16 No one can deny how great is the secret of our religion: He appeared in human form, was shown to be right by the Spirit, and was seen by angels. He was preached among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, and was taken up to heaven.

HE appeared in human form - so did all of us! That doesn't mean it was God that was being referred to here.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Christ gave his life for us. We too, then, ought to give our lives for others!

The KJV says, Hereby we perceive the love of God, because HE laid down His life. Our Saviour is God.

Rev 1:8 “I am the first and the last,” says the Lord God Almighty, who is, who was, and who is to come.

Completely removes the reference to all three members of the Trinity, therefore showing Jesus' deity and equality with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Romans 9:5 they are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! Amen.

The KJV says "...Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever."

Isaiah 7:14 Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman who is pregnant will have a son and will name him ‘Immanuel.’

Messing with the virgin birth in a passage that states He is Immanuel, God With Us.

Micah 5:2 The Lord says, “Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose family line goes back to ancient times.”

Removes the reference to the eternality of the Messiah (and isn't actually talking about Him going back to ancient times, but His family line) - and only God is eternal.

This is a good place to start. I do not have all my modern versions at hand that I marked all the changes in so am using an online Bible site. I cannot remember all the major (ie. obvious, glaring) changes offhand. The site I used for the GNT (or TEV) is: https://www.biblegateway.com/ Feel free to suggest other passages.

Luke 2;33 Is enough for me, if Joseph is Jesus father, then I will see you in hell.

[Jerry]

Luke 2:33 The child's father and mother were amazed at the things Simeon said about him.

You might want to cancel your reservation...

[BrotherTony]

14 hours ago, Jerry said:

BrotherTony asked me to show where some modern versions remove or change passages about the deity of Christ, hence this thread. Robert Bratcher who "translated" the Good News Bible did not believe Jesus was good, so his translation was done in such a way as to present his doctrinal stance. Here are some examples:

Acts 20:28 So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he made his own through the blood of his Son.

Does not declare God shed His own blood - therefore ruining a verse teaching Christ is both God and man, and that it was His blood that purchased our salvation.

1 Timothy 3:16 No one can deny how great is the secret of our religion: He appeared in human form, was shown to be right by the Spirit, and was seen by angels. He was preached among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, and was taken up to heaven.

HE appeared in human form - so did all of us! That doesn't mean it was God that was being referred to here.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Christ gave his life for us. We too, then, ought to give our lives for others!

The KJV says, Hereby we perceive the love of God, because HE laid down His life. Our Saviour is God.

Rev 1:8 “I am the first and the last,” says the Lord God Almighty, who is, who was, and who is to come.

Completely removes the reference to all three members of the Trinity, therefore showing Jesus' deity and equality with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Romans 9:5 they are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! Amen.

The KJV says "...Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever."

Isaiah 7:14 Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman who is pregnant will have a son and will name him ‘Immanuel.’

Messing with the virgin birth in a passage that states He is Immanuel, God With Us.

Micah 5:2 The Lord says, “Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose family line goes back to ancient times.”

Removes the reference to the eternality of the Messiah (and isn't actually talking about Him going back to ancient times, but His family line) - and only God is eternal.

This is a good place to start. I do not have all my modern versions at hand that I marked all the changes in so am using an online Bible site. I cannot remember all the major (ie. obvious, glaring) changes offhand. The site I used for the GNT (or TEV) is: https://www.biblegateway.com/ Feel free to suggest other passages.

I a working to answer each of these individually. Personally, I've never used the Good News version TEV...So I'm not acquainted with its alleged problems.. I will post the answers when I'm done....and remember, these aren't necessarily MY beliefs as you're implying...I'm just making the arguments that those who hold to the CT's as better or just as good. Maybe you need to come down off your high horse a bit. 

4 hours ago, Bro. West said:

Luke 2;33 Is enough for me, if Joseph is Jesus father, then I will see you in hell.

It seems to me that this is sort of disengenous on your part...you're not giving the whole of the text in context....This whole chapter acknowledges that Joseph is raising Christ as his own son, but is very well aware of his parentage...Seems the KJV translators didn't have much of a problem with this either. Mary refers to Joseph as Jesus's father...and in fact...he was playing the part of the father. Dishonesty solved.

[Jerry]

I am not on a high horse, just feel very strongly about my Bible/the Bible and don't like people playing around with God's Word. I am not sure why you think every one is a jerk and has an axe to grind. You are quick to question everyone's motives - yet you are the one continually over and over getting bristly on a lot of threads, especially when someone is standing on the Word of God in a manner you are completely unwilling to do so. Separation from evil and from false doctrine are Bible commands, contending for the faith and refuting false brethren and corruption of God's Word are Bible commands, exposing error is a Bible command. It may not be your version of love - but love according to Jesus is obeying His commands. Actually, this is what Paul says about Biblical love (agape) too. Charity, according to Matthew Henry, is when love towards God AND man is in view, like here:

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

You asked me to provide proof for what I was saying, so I started a thread to do so.

It looks like you don't believe there is a Devil tampering with the Word of God and using his people to do the tampering.

You don't need the full context of the passage. If the actual reference to Jesus being God is removed, you don't need the rest of the chapter to prove it. You just need to compare it to the originals and other versions to see that it has been tampered with. The issue IS NOT whether there are ANY references to Jesus being God still in a Bible (all the Devil has to do is leave one reference in there somewhere to fit your argument) - BUT specific references are removed or changed.

If the underlying passage says Joseph (which it literally does), then someone changing that passage is not a translating issue - but a deliberate change (the Greek words for Joseph and father are not the same words), which affects the doctrine taught in that passage. That's one passage. Mess around with the passage about the virgin birth and it being God With Us who was born, another passage and doctrine attacked. Then the passage about His eternality changed in such a way as to present Him as a man, another passage affected, and so on. ALL TOGETHER, it is a satanic attack upon the Word of God and the doctrines of Christ. Maybe someone who already believes Jesus is God will still see it in the passage somewhere - but the specific references and the point for those references is changed - AND there are more and more people who no longer know the truth about Jesus which will be confused and effected.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jerry

[BrotherTony]

50 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I am not on a high horse, just feel very strongly about my Bible/the Bible and don't like people playing around with God's Word.

I thought that I was quite clear nearly every time the subject of the KJV comes up that I am KJV preferred, formerly an 'Only' but not any more. I don't play away with the Word of God, yet you seem to like to imply nearly everyone who doesn't agree with you on this subject is doing this. 

I am not sure why you think every one is a jerk and has an axe to grind. You are quick to question everyone's motives - yet you are the one continually over and over getting bristly on a lot of threads, especially when someone is standing on the Word of God in a manner you are completely unwilling to do so.

Bearing false witness against me and implying things about me that aren't true are a shame to you. I don't believe everyone has an axe to grind. You don't like your opinion of subject matter being questioned, and that's become quite evident in MANY threads throughout the time I have been on these forums. I don't think anyone here is a jerk...I do believe however that some have a habit of bringing in Catholic and other religious backgrounds to a Baptist forum, and I say so. If that makes you think I'm thinking everyone is a jerk, then please, tell me what you're implying about me with your accusation? Huh? 

Separation from evil and from false doctrine are Bible commands, contending for the faith and refuting false brethren and corruption of God's Word are Bible commands, exposing error is a Bible command. It may not be your version of love - but love according to Jesus is obeying His commands.

More false implications towards me from you, Jerry??? Please, remove that moat from your eye before you start accusing others. You have no idea what my definition of love is, so your assumptions make something of you that you are proving yourself to be.

Actually, this is what Paul says about Biblical love (agape) too. Charity, according to Matthew Henry, is when love towards God AND man is in view, like here:

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Brother, you might want to try practicing what you're preaching. I love you and everyone

here on these forums...even Bro. West, though he and I don't see eye to eye on several things. Remember, being direct isn't a sign of hating anyone. 

50 minutes ago, Jerry said:

You asked me to provide proof for what I was saying, so I started a thread to do so.

Yes, thank you for doing that. I do appreciate it. Now if you'd just use some versions that are actually used instead of some obscure version hardly anyone I or anyone else knows uses.

50 minutes ago, Jerry said:

It looks like you don't believe there is a Devil tampering with the Word of God and using his people to do the tampering.

You don't need the full context of the passage. If the actual reference to Jesus being God is removed, you don't need the rest of the chapter to prove it. You just need to compare it to the originals and other versions to see that it has been tampered with. The issue IS NOT whether there are ANY references to Jesus being God still in a Bible (all the Devil has to do is leave one reference in there somewhere to fit your argument) - BUT specific references are removed or changed.

Actually reading the whole passage's content in CONTEXT is helpful...but, I know many people don't like to do that, but would rather cherry pick the verses or phrases that seem to fit their ideology. To say that I don't believe that there is an attack on the Word of God is a lie, and you know it. Shame on you, Jerry. Misrepresentation of me isn't becoming of you. You state to compare the originals...which??? The received text or the CT? You seem to want to make the CT say exactlyl the same thing as the RT, and that's not going to happen word for word, just as the autographs wouldn't fit word for word into the Kings English. It doesn't negate the Word of God, nor does it weaken it, because it's swift and sharp and able to divide the intents of the body and spirit. This happens in both the RT and the CT. There's no way around this fact."ALL SCRIPTURE" is given by inspiration of God...Can't have it both ways, Jerry.

50 minutes ago, Jerry said:

If the underlying passage says Joseph (which it literally does), then someone changing that passage is not a translating issue - but a deliberate change (the Greek words for Joseph and father are not the same words), which affects the doctrine taught in that passage. That's one passage. Mess around with the passage about the virgin birth and it being God With Us who was born, another passage and doctrine attacked. Then the passage about His eternality changed in such a way as to present Him as a man, another passage affected, and so on. ALL TOGETHER, it is a satanic attack upon the Word of God and the doctrines of Christ. Maybe someone who already believes Jesus is God will still see it in the passage somewhere - but the specific references and the point for those references is changed - AND there are more and more people who no longer know the truth about Jesus which will be confused and effected.

 

[Bro. West]

You are naive if you think that the devil not after the only defensive weapon a Christian has. If he can take our sword and turn it into a butter knife, he will. The first time the serpent talked a human being the issue over what God said. Gen3 here what God said is distorted. The word freely is left out and touch it is added. This is the pattern of the newer LIBELS . When Jesus was tempted what do you read “it is written”. And Satan misquotes the verse. And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Mat 4:6

Psa. 91:11, For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12, They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

If you have more than one authority, then you have no final authority and if you decide then you become the Final Authority. I have submitted myself to the KJV as my final authority. If one translation says father and one says Joseph and I choose the one I want then I judge and become the final authority. We Bible Believing Believers have submitted ourselves to one authority, therefore we NEVER pick and choose. Our final authority is in our hands. Is Acts 8:37 the words of God or not? We BBB’S do not judge, this judgment the BOOK of books has already made the final judgment for us.

In closing if you just USE the KJV you are not a Bible Believer! We BBB’S believe it is infallible, preserved love letter for the English speaking people by God’s provenance. We cry over it, pray over it, repent because of it, rejoice over it, kiss it’s cover just like a soldier would in a fox hole over a love letter from his loving wife. And because we have the real thing we use it in our ministries or personal life’s. It personally hath comforted me over the death of 3 children, has brought me back when I fall and hath given me adoption papers.

When I used to teach adults I has a potty chair, shaped like a toilet (lid and all) in the class room full of the newer Libel and during the teaching at times I would would open up it’s lid and say let us see these libels have to say.

[BrotherTony]

34 minutes ago, Bro. West said:

You are naive if you think that the devil not after the only defensive weapon a Christian has. If he can take our sword and turn it into a butter knife, he will. The first time the serpent talked a human being the issue over what God said. Gen3 here what God said is distorted. The word freely is left out and touch it is added. This is the pattern of the newer LIBELS . When Jesus was tempted what do you read “it is written”. And Satan misquotes the verse. And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Mat 4:6

Psa. 91:11, For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12, They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

If you have more than one authority, then you have no final authority and if you decide then you become the Final Authority. I have submitted myself to the KJV as my final authority. If one translation says father and one says Joseph and I choose the one I want then I judge and become the final authority. We Bible Believing Believers have submitted ourselves to one authority, therefore we NEVER pick and choose. Our final authority is in our hands. Is Acts 8:37 the words of God or not? We BBB’S do not judge, this judgment the BOOK of books has already made the final judgment for us.

In closing if you just USE the KJV you are not a Bible Believer! We BBB’S believe it is infallible, preserved love letter for the English speaking people by God’s provenance. We cry over it, pray over it, repent because of it, rejoice over it, kiss it’s cover just like a soldier would in a fox hole over a love letter from his loving wife. And because we have the real thing we use it in our ministries or personal life’s. It personally hath comforted me over the death of 3 children, has brought me back when I fall and hath given me adoption papers.

When I used to teach adults I has a potty chair, shaped like a toilet (lid and all) in the class room full of the newer Libel and during the teaching at times I would would open up it’s lid and say let us see these libels have to say.

I'm far from naive if you're addressing me, Bro. West. And even in the King James, Joseph is referred to as Jesus' father. You may want to look at the account of where Jesus at the age of 12 has gone missing and is still back in Jerusalem speaking with the religious elders in the temple. The 

[Bro. West]

Dear Brother.

I was not addressing you, but if the shoe fits wear it for there are others that wear the same shoe. As far as Luke 2:48-49, what does it say.?

48, And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.49, And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

The Writ always follows the same pattern 1^st the natural then the spiritual. I am sure that Jesus did not address Joseph as HEY YOU, that would of went over well with his half brothers and sisters Mark 6:3. So what did Jesus do (God Manifested in the flesh)? And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. Luke 2:51

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Phi 2:7

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; Heb 5:8

He allowed Himself to obey Joseph, here was the Creator obeying the creature.

Luke is not writing as a member of the family unit and knew who Jesus was and who Joseph was. When Jesus spoke verse 49, They did not know what he meant. And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. Luke 2:50

But this is not the main point the main point is authority, final authority. If the NIV says father and the KJV says Joseph and you judge between them as well as other passages, you become the final authority. We KJV believer never have to judge, it has already judged, we are subject to it in all matters of faith and practice. What ever it says goes, PERIOD .

That is the issue which you answered not.

 

[Jerry]

23 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

I thought that I was quite clear nearly every time the subject of the KJV comes up that I am KJV preferred, formerly an 'Only' but not any more. I don't play away with the Word of God, yet you seem to like to imply nearly everyone who doesn't agree with you on this subject is doing this. 

For the record, I was referring to the "translators" of the modern versions when I stated I had a problem with those who play around with God's Word - hence my defending the KJV and the Textus Receptus and standing against the modern versions and the Critical Texts. I have not applied that to anyone on these boards in any recent discussions (yes, in the past I have refuted those who were determined to push false teachings, especially when I was a Moderator years ago - however, I am referring to current conversations).

23 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Yes, thank you for doing that. I do appreciate it. Now if you'd just use some versions that are actually used instead of some obscure version hardly anyone I or anyone else knows uses.

For the most part, the changes are the same in ALL modern versions as they all use different editions of the same Critical Text.

[Bro. West]

First let us clear the air. The terms you are using the Word of God and God’s Word are unscriptural, when referring to the Bible or God’s mouth as in thus saith the Lord or preaching It is always a small w.

The term Word of God (Rev. 19:13) is Jesus Christ. And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. Rev 19:13 and when the it is capitalizes as in Word it also refers to His person.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1 The Word of life (1John 1:1) compare to Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life. Act 5:20

I hold the word or words of God in my hand, I do not have Jesus sitting in my hand.

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God. John 8:47. I could go on, but enough said about the Word and the word.

Things that are different are not the same. But while they are different they are very similar. They both are eternal, truthful, holy, pure and are connected to the saving of the soul. My Bible does not contain the words of God, it is the word of God. I do not prefer it over the rest because it contains more of the words of God. When you say this then which parts are not the words of God. Is it 80% pure, 90% pure or what.

My question on final authority has yet to be answered and I do not expect it to be.

[Jerry]

47 minutes ago, Bro. West said:

First let us clear the air. The terms you are using the Word of God and God’s Word are unscriptural, when referring to the Bible or God’s mouth as in thus saith the Lord or preaching It is always a small w.

? Many commentators and writers spell the Word of God (referring to the Bible) with a capital W - generations and generations of people have been doing this (I do not know how far back this practice goes). It is no different than capitalizing the word Bible or the Scriptures. If you choose not to capitalize it, that is certainly your right and personal choice. If you are referring to within the Bible itself it has a lower case w, yes - but then personal pronouns of God are in lower case in the Bible itself, but it is common accepted practice for many people to capitalize those pronouns when the Lord God is in view. If you are worried in some way the readers will confuse the two, I guarantee I make it plain whether I am referring to the Son of God, God manifest in the flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ, or quoting a part of His written Word.

[Bro. West]

It is true many have used Word and word interchangeably and I have most likely violated it myself.

Regardless, we should try to adhere to the usage as in Writ, Just like the usage of immortal soul, when mortal hath to due with the flesh (1Cor. 15:53-54) and not the soul.

But this is a side issue the main question is final authority, which has yet to be answered. This was the main point of the thread (read prior comments) on who decides as in Luke 2:33. I do not want something that is reliable, but infallible. Do I have this or do I not. I do not want a Bible that contains the truth, but is the truth. If I have more than one authority I have no final authority and if I judge, that makes me the final authority.

[Jerry]

You brought it up. It is nothing but personal preference that you have stated. If it was a doctrinal issue, right or wrong, then you have a basis to challenge someone one way or the either - but saying someone is wrong on a matter of purely personal interest is kind of weird.

Immortal means something cannot die. Our soul is brought to life and is now eternal - will live forever in Heaven or Hell (so is definitely immortal now).

[Jerry]

Hm, for those who want the context, I think looking up the whole chapter is reasonable context. Looking up 1 Timothy 3 in all these versions, and we find that there is NO mention of Jesus Christ, the Messiah, being God or God manifest in the flesh, which is what verse 16 says in the KJV and the Greek Received Texts.

The ASV, Amplified, both versions of the NASV, the GNB (TEV), HCSB, TLB, The Message, NIV, NRSV. Those are the ones I am most familiar with.

So how is that for removing one word - in the context of the whole chapter - removing the whole doctrine found in that one chapter of Jesus Christ being God manifest in the flesh (ie. the incarnation). Sure, there may be other passages elsewhere (but how many directly state it?), that still have this doctrine - BUT you don't have to 100% remove a doctrine to minimalize it or make it seemingly unimportant. That's 10 modern versions that completely remove that doctrine from that chapter. Is the Messiah God manifest in the flesh, asks the world? Well, not according to 1 Timothy.