Local Church

[BobbyH]

What local church is Jesus referring to in Matthew 18:17?

[DaveW]

Well, Jesus is talking to the disciples at that time - the obvious conclusion is that they are the church he was talking to.

They were baptized believers, they were organized as displayed by the fact that they had a Pastor and a treasurer, and they were gathered to do the will of God - what else do they need to be a church?

[Baptist_Bible_Believer]

The first question would be, what constitutes the church. At the least, it must consist of Blood-bought, born-again believers. When were people born again according to the Gospel as presented in I Corinthians 15:2-4? If we take the Scripture as presented, no one is born again until after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Jesus speaks future tense concerning His church: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18 KJV).

If the church only consists of born-again believers, and no one was born again until later, the Matthew 18:17 must also be of a future fulfillment. Further, my view is that the church was established officially on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit of God descended and endowed those meeting in the upper room. Shortly after that others were added to the church.

At the same time, Jesus was transitioning from the Old covenant to the New and certain aspects of the coming church were being established such as the officers that DaveW mentions.

[BobbyH]

2 hours ago, DaveW said:

Well, Jesus is talking to the disciples at that time - the obvious conclusion is that they are the church he was talking to.

They were baptized believers, they were organized as displayed by the fact that they had a Pastor and a treasurer, and they were gathered to do the will of God - what else do they need to be a church?

I will agree with the believers part and at that time they were all the believers that existed. I recognize the Pastor as Jesus Christ..wasn't Judas the keeper of the purse at the time (treasurer)? IMHO I just believe that salvation adds to the Christ's Church (which this was). He is my Shepard (Pastor). I am an under-shepard  of His flock at Old Fort NC. Thanks for the reply and Pray for me.

[BobbyH]

1 hour ago, Baptist_Bible_Believer said:

The first question would be, what constitutes the church. At the least, it must consist of Blood-bought, born-again believers. When were people born again according to the Gospel as presented in I Corinthians 15:2-4? If we take the Scripture as presented, no one is born again until after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Jesus speaks future tense concerning His church: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18 KJV).

If the church only consists of born-again believers, and no one was born again until later, the Matthew 18:17 must also be of a future fulfillment. Further, my view is that the church was established officially on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit of God descended and endowed those meeting in the upper room. Shortly after that others were added to the church.

At the same time, Jesus was transitioning from the Old covenant to the New and certain aspects of the coming church were being established such as the officers that DaveW mentions.

Surely the 120 in the upper room were blood bought born again believers and I agree they were the first "official" members of Christ's Church. I believe that those added after Peter's message were added at the time of their being blood bought, born again believers. Salvation adds to His Church. Baptism is a public demonstration (confession) of that salvation. I still love my local church here at Brookside Missionary Baptist Church - Old Fort, NC .

[Jim_Alaska]

1Cor. 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, 

Luke 6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles.

[OFIB Preacher]

23 hours ago, Baptist_Bible_Believer said:

The first question would be, what constitutes the church. At the least, it must consist of Blood-bought, born-again believers. When were people born again according to the Gospel as presented in I Corinthians 15:2-4? If we take the Scripture as presented, no one is born again until after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Jesus speaks future tense concerning His church: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18 KJV).

If the church only consists of born-again believers, and no one was born again until later, the Matthew 18:17 must also be of a future fulfillment. Further, my view is that the church was established officially on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit of God descended and endowed those meeting in the upper room. Shortly after that others were added to the church.

At the same time, Jesus was transitioning from the Old covenant to the New and certain aspects of the coming church were being established such as the officers that DaveW mentions.

HMMMM, BBB, good points, however, I personally believe that the church was started before Pentecost, but not in Matthew 16, John 20 IMHO.  Matthew 16 is a promise for the future and in Acts 2, the church had to be there already, since folk were added to it.  Speaking of adding, if I may do so, I'd like to add a link to a message I brought along those lines a while back from Colossians 1, if you please.  I don't have it all figured out at all, but I believe this will further explain things and be a help/blessing.  Sunday, May 6, 2018 http://jeremiah616.sermon.net/main/main/21147528

[Baptist_Bible_Believer]

That's okay. I don't even agree with myself half the time. I should probably have said that the church was "empowered" on the day of Pentecost . . . when was it "established"? I agree with you in the sense that there is no verse we can point to which states, on this day I establish the institution which will be known as my body and my bride. But we know it was future in Matthew 16 and present in Acts.

[OFIB Preacher]

14 minutes ago, Baptist_Bible_Believer said:

That's okay. I don't even agree with myself half the time. I should probably have said that the church was "empowered" on the day of Pentecost . . . when was it "established"? I agree with you in the sense that there is no verse we can point to which states, on this day I establish the institution which will be known as my body and my bride. But we know it was future in Matthew 16 and present in Acts.

I believe Jesus established the church in John 20, which was after his resurrection, although reckon Thomas got in the next service LOL!  John 20:19-23 KJB: 19   Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20   And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD.
21   Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22   And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23   Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

[Baptist_Bible_Believer]

I'm listening to the link you provided. I love the singing!

[OFIB Preacher]

1 hour ago, Baptist_Bible_Believer said:

I'm listening to the link you provided. I love the singing!

Thanks so much!  The song is from Bro. James and Sis. Norma Lockard, during a Preacher's Fellowship several years ago, in Auburn, KY, LOVE IT!

[BobbyH]

2 hours ago, OFIB Preacher said:

Speaking of adding, if I may do so, I'd like to add a link to a message I brought along those lines a while back from Colossians 1, if you please.  I don't have it all figured out at all, but I believe this will further explain things and be a help/blessing.

I just listened to your fine message. Thank the Lord for you and what you do. I think some are confused on my stand and maybe I am not expressing it well enough. I believe in the "Local Church" and that we have a mighty work to do. In your message you mentioned someone that is truly born again should join with a local church for teaching and growth and I agree to that. If they do not do that right away I believe they are still part of the body of Christ and a member of His "collective" church. Were the churches of the New Testament not all part of this collective Church that began with Jesus and the apostles? I think of Paul's epistle to the Thessalonians about the rapture and I can't help but believe that his instruction was to all born again believers collectively. The New Testament speaks to us all. You pray for me and I'll do the same for you.

Brookside Missionary Baptist Church Old Fort NC

[OFIB Preacher]

20 minutes ago, BobbyH said:

I just listened to your fine message. Thank the Lord for you and what you do. I think some are confused on my stand and maybe I am not expressing it well enough. I believe in the "Local Church" and that we have a mighty work to do. In your message you mentioned someone that is truly born again should join with a local church for teaching and growth and I agree to that. If they do not do that right away I believe they are still part of the body of Christ and a member of His "collective" church. Were the churches of the New Testament not all part of this collective Church that began with Jesus and the apostles? I think of Paul's epistle to the Thessalonians about the rapture and I can't help but believe that his instruction was to all born again believers collectively. The New Testament speaks to us all. You pray for me and I'll do the same for you.

Brookside Missionary Baptist Church Old Fort NC

Brother H,

Thanks for listening, thank/praise the LORD for you and your work as well!  I believe that when the LORD saves someone, they'll align themselves with a Bible-believing, Bible-preaching/teaching, Bible-practicing church and in doing so, if they'll listen to the LORD, He'll lead them to an Independent Baptist church.  If they disregard His leading, they'll be in rebellion and I believe they won't go any further in their relationship/fellowship with God.  Are they saved and part of the bride?  Maybe, but if so, they could leave this world prematurely, because of the aforementioned rebellion.  Again, thanks for listening and they encouragement!

[DaveW]

What are the requirements for a church to be a church?

[BobbyH]

The Church is built by Jesus Christ on the foundation that He is "The Christ" The apostles built local churches with Him as the Chief Cornerstone. All these are still His Church.

 

Are there tares in His Church? Yes. However, He tells us to let Him sort that out!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

"Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." Acts 2:47

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matthew 18:20