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BobbyH last won the day on January 13 2019

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  1. Miss Daisy, there are certainly going to be false teachers among us. We need to be on guard and follow "The Gospel" and "the apostle's doctrine" so we can identify these "wolves in sheep's clothing". As for the divorce issue it should probably be addressed in a different forum. I pray that you find peace.
  2. My seven grandchildren are all millennials. None of them go to church. Their reason is they all grew up in public school and are evolutionists. They were not taught the Word in school. They believe in the science they were taught. After 12-16 years of school their "truth" is based on this science. I keep trying, but it is hard to overcome this situation.
  3. Wow! I guess I spoke out of turn. I did study the passage. I cannot make it fit your stand. I am not a "universalist" as you may assume. I just believe that all true churches that follow the Scriptures are part of the body of Christ of which He is Head of All.
  4. I am not saying or implying that there is a universal church. I am saying that all true local churches are part of One body, The body of Christ. Which one local church is the body? 1 Cor 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 2 1 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
  5. There is only one body. We are united in spirit, not of this world. Instruction to the local churches are used to teach us all what kind of spirit we should have. If one is hurt we all are hurt. If one is in need we are all in need. It is a spiritual context. The apostles doctrines are applicable to us all.
  6. Jim, I believe the very Scripture you used before confirms this Holy Spirit baptism. "1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"
  7. "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body", I would like to stay on this point for now. I read this as the initial baptism of The Holy Spirit (at the time of regeneration) into the body of Jesus Christ. I do not think Paul is here referring to water baptism which is still to come to show publicly our regeneration. Which I would then say after water baptism you can become part of a local church.
  8. If this is true, does it apply only to the church at Corinth? What about the general epistles which church are they directed to? I read this to mean the baptism by The Holy Spirit we all receive upon being born again. Water baptism by immersion is a separate act IMO. Jim, I appreciate your input. I just do not see baptism and church membership tied to each other. That again IMO is like saying I am not going to accept someone's salvation if they were not saved in a Baptist church. I quote again " Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." I am saved, I was baptized by immersion in the name of The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and therefore I believe I am part of His church. I am a member of Brookside Missionary Baptist Church by their choice and mine through mutual agreement.
  9. As a few of you may know, I am not what you guys call an "independent Baptist" however; I am in my 2nd year of Bible College online that is independent Baptist 100%. I had never heard of this doctrine until I studied Church History. My roots are Missionary Baptists. I have always thought of the church as both local, visible and "universal" but not in a Catholic concept (nor as a Protestant) concept. I just felt that all the truly born again believers were part of Jesus' Church. I was not baptized to become a member of a church, but to show publicly my attachment to Christ and to typify His death, burial and resurrection. I have read more on this topic in the last month that I care to admit. Pros and Cons. Every time I am almost persuaded I will read another scripture that brings me back to the beginning. A sermon I read last night ( don't remember who it was by) says this scripture below is the proof text for the model church start. I would like to go through it and get input to my interpretation. Acts 2:40-47 King James Version (KJV) 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word (they became born again, saved) were baptized (no mention of this being for church membership as we know it today): and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (called out assembly "church"- this was all the born again, saved at that time) 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added (Jesus does the adding) to the church daily such as should be saved. (No mention of baptism here, baptism is not part of salvation. It is an ordinance given by Christ to show Who you are committed to. I do not find where the Bible says baptism is "for" church membership.)
  10. Exodus 32:33 King James Version (KJV) 33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. This is referring to the time in the wilderness when the people had sinned against God and Moses went to God to intercede for them I believe this is God's Book of Life recording all people living. To be blotted out meant physical death. Moses asked God that if He blotted the people out of the Book, to also blot him out even though he had not sinned. Because of the plea made by Moses God showed mercy on the people but did not take the threat away. God wanted the people to know the ultimate price of sin. So I think this is a warning of physical death if they continued in sin. However; God will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy. Ezekiel 18:24 King James Version (KJV) 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. I believe this text is referring to apostate people. They were never righteous in their hearts. They only have false righteousness and therefore there is nothing to mention. They are pretenders. "If" saved always saved!
  11. DaveW "I don't get why this is such an issue for so many people. What we see in the Bible is that churches are started under the authority of other churches. This IS the Biblical pattern." I do not have a problem with authority. I know who has authority over me in the leadership of my flock. That authority comes from Jesus Christ through the empowerment of The Holy Spirit. My "pattern" is of course the Scriptures as revealed again by The Holy Spirit. Can we not see these same issues were creeping into churches since the beginning? The Apostles doctrine is what we should follow and that puts Jesus Christ as our foundation. 1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
  12. I think the thousands of disciples (church members) scattered at the time of persecution in Jerusalem, around the time of the stoning of Stephen. This lead to churches in several locations. Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. 20 And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the LordJesus. 21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord. As time goes on the only way for us to be linked to the church at Jerusalem is through the same foundation Jesus Christ through the empowerment of The Holy Spirit. I am not trying to be disagreeable, this is important to me. If I might ask How do you connect your church back to the first church?
  13. "Church" perpetuity I agree is guaranteed. There will always be true churches. I do not find the Scripture that affirm "church begets church". I believe that is why the first church was empowered by the Holy Spirit and that "seed" is what is planted to beget a true church. Scriptural baptism is necessary to become part of His church, not as part of regeneration but to identify with The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. I agree with the scriptures you gave to support the outline of a true church. I just believe that just as the "seed" that the Apostles were empowered with was The Holy Spirit. "If" a church is planted under the authority of The Holy Spirit is will be a true church. "I do not seek to be right in man's eyes, I just want to be right with God"
  14. Thank you Jim, I read your attached post. I appreciate your input. I am convinced about when "Jesus'" Church started. My sticking point is more to do with "church perpetuity" than the beginning. I believe the Apostles were empowered at Pentecost by The Holy Spirit to do the work of building the church on the foundation that Christ had laid. I believe churches started everywhere through disciples that were persecuted and scattered throughout the region. These churches were ordained of The Holy Spirit and IMHO legitimate. I have a hard time with the only legitimate churches being those that are connected to a church started by the Apostles. Again, IMHO it is The Holy Spirit that begets a church with Jesus Christ as the Foundation. I try my best to rightly divide the Word through study and prayer as God gives me wisdom. I just am led to think that if a born again, Spirit filled believer (man) was led to start a local church based on the foundation that Christ laid, that the Holy Spirit would be the authority. He would of course have to be baptized by someone with that same Holy Spirit authority. I submit this in love and not as criticism. I do not seek to be right in man's eyes, I just want to be right with God.
  15. "Jesus Christ began His Church in Jerusalem with the calling of the 12 and finished building it just prior to being crucified (with about 120 adult members). This one church was the ‘my church’ that He would build. This Church begat other Churches just like itself (Antioch, Ephesus, Corinth, etc.)." Is this common doctrine among independent Baptist churches?

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