New Old Guy On The Block

[Zuno_Yazh]

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Hello;

 

I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic system in 1944 and when old enough, attended Catechism where I eventually completed First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

 

Though I kept my Catholic identity for twenty-four years, I gave up on the religion itself fairly early because it's just too hard to get to heaven that way.

 

Ironically, though I had listened to a pretty good number of homilies in Sunday morning church, my mind never actually "heard" the gospel till it was preached to me by a Baptist minister while I was at work in a welding shop in Vancouver Washington.

 

I was saved in a Conservative Baptist church in 1968, and immersion-baptized by a Conservative Baptist minister in 1978.

 

I much prefer independence as a Baptist rather than be shackled to institutional thinking. I had enough of that kind of thought control as a Catholic and do not care to associate with Christ in that manner ever again.

 

Cliff

 

/

[DaveW]

Welcome!

(And thanks for fixing the verses).

[Zuno_Yazh]

41 minutes ago, DaveW said:

(And thanks for fixing the verses).

 

Sorry about that misstep. It's been a while since I was on a KJV-only forum. Might take me a while to get back into the swing of it.

 

Cliff

 

/

Edited April 2, 2018 by Zuno_Yazh

[HappyChristian]

Welcome aboard.

[1Timothy115]

Welcome aboard.

[Pastor Matt]

Welcome Zuno.

[swathdiver]

Thanks Cliff!  Can Catholics get to heaven by following their religion?  What did you do to get saved?

[Zuno_Yazh]

2 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Thanks Cliff!  Can Catholics get to heaven by following their religion?

 

Their performance would have to be flawless.

 

● Rom 2:6-7 . . Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life.

 

Patient continuance speaks of dogged perseverance in well doing rather than well doing some of the time, or even most of the time. Patient continuance speaks of full time, i.e. no slacking off.

 

At the heart of the Roman Catholic plan of salvation is mandatory compliance with the Ten Commandments; which poses a very difficult obstacle to success because any and all failures to comply with even just one of those Ten results in an immediate curse.

 

● Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them.

 

● Gal 3:10 . . For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

In other words: just one break in continuity and a Catholic is toast.

 

● Jas 2:10 . . For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

The Ten Commandments are an excellent code of conduct; but when compliance is made essential to one's salvation; the Commandments are troublesome; in point of fact: quite lethal.

 

/

[Zuno_Yazh]

4 hours ago, swathdiver said:

What did you do to get saved?

 

It was a process.

 

First off, the Baptist minister, about whom I wrote in the introduction, explained that Christ went to the cross for individuals; i.e. me-- which was very interesting news; to say the least

 

Anyway, long story short; I went to his church in Portland Oregon; and when the Sunday morning service was over, explained to the pastor that I was there that day to speak with God. So he and I and that minister went down front to a rail where we all knelt together while I prayed a very simple, naïve prayer that went something like this:

 

"God, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death."

 

Well; God must've figured I was a borderline case that needed a bit of encouragement because while speaking my prayer, I became aware of a rather large, heavy chair on the other side of the rail, a bit to our left and suspended about four feet off the floor. Someone was seated on the chair. I couldn't really make out their face, but the person was watching me very intently. I didn't tell the pastor what just happened because to be honest, I really didn't know what to make of it.

 

That incident, even though very disturbing, was fortunate because it became-- for me anyway --a fulfilment of the passage below.

 

"The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Rom 8:16)

 

The koiné Greek word translated "bears witness" is summartureo (soom mar-too-reh'-o) which means: to corroborate by (concurrent) evidence.

 

I suppose most people would not think of my experience as the Spirit's corroboration; but instead prefer to rely upon textual evidence rather than seeing things. Well; that's okay by me because after all, I was stressed that morning so who really knows, least of all me, if what I experienced wasn't just some sort of mental aberration.

 

/

Edited April 4, 2018 by Zuno_Yazh

[Jim_Alaska]

On 4/4/2018 at 7:10 AM, Zuno_Yazh said:

 

Their performance would have to be flawless.

 This was your answer in regard to swathdiver's question; "Can Catholics get to heaven by following their religion?"

By your answer I must then assume that you believe that Catholics can get to heaven if their performance was flawless.

I would submit that a Catholics flawless performance does not take into consideration the original sin that passes on to all men from the time of Adam.  1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Man, outside of Christ is flawed  from birth and no amount of flawlessness on his part can remove that sin.

 Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. This Scripture declares that even if a man's performance were perfect, or flawless, he could not be justified by his performance.

So then, Scripture, not the fertile mind of man, affirms that no amount of flawlessness of man can result in a home in heaven.

Edited to add:

 Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. We are born condemned before we even begin to try to do any good works. Being condemned already the only remedy is a full pardon, which is by the faith of Jesus Christ, not of works lest any man should boast.

[Zuno_Yazh]

1 hour ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,

 

Though Roman Catholicism incorporates the Ten Commandments portion of the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; technically it isn't based upon that covenant.

 

/

[Jim_Alaska]

19 minutes ago, Zuno_Yazh said:

 

Though Roman Catholicism incorporates the Ten Commandments portion of the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; technically it isn't based upon that covenant.

 

This has no bearing. The point is: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.