Anxiety/Depression Meds

[JerryNumbers]

As deputydog530 said, I agree, I was not accusing no one in particular. Mine was just a general statement.

And I will put this from my previous post into this post.

<<"Its amazing to me at the number of Baptist who are becoming anti-medical doctors, anti-medicine and blaming so much sickness and or depression or mental illness on one sins and or diet.">>

Because I am truly amazed at the number of Baptist who think this way.

Oh, deputydog530, I've got a sister who has mental problems, so I've seen things close up, had experience with it 1st hand. Her trouble I feel are the result of things that happened in her child hood, 1st 7 or 8 years of her life. Some people seems to think what ever happens to a young child with have no effect on them, that they will out grow it, that they want remember it, that is a lie, for many it has much harmful effect, some are able to overcome it. My sister who is now 66 has not been able to live on her own since the 70's. Without her medicine, she is totally out of control and no one can control her. When she is that way she is dangerous to her self and anyone around her. Just before she was put in a home she had threatened to kill both father and mother, them that night she broke every window out of her house, destroyed every piece of furniture in her house, it look as if a tornado hit the inside of that house. Some of her things were thrown out the front door and back door, some out the windows. There was not a chair left that one could set in. The console TV had the scree broken out and turned on its side.


I think the Lord that I was a overcomer of childhood happenings, for its been with His grace that it did not have such harmful effects on me. If I was not some would probably say the cause of his problems in his sin without having all the facts. I'm sure many say that about my sister.

[1John2:15-17]

Thanks to everyone for the input. As I work with a sibling on this, I've tried to explain that meds in most cases should not be the first-line of defense, rather as many have said here, God and the Bible should be first, all the time trying to figure out if it is truly a medical issue or just one of "not" being as close to God as one can be.

I too have also heard many people, including Baptists, who are totally against well-controlled medicinal therapy, merely as some have said here, "you are not praying enough." Yes, God did give us physicians and the wisdom with medication, but we are not to overuse/abuse medication either, no?

[deputydog530]

I fully understand. I took a gun from a person who had it to their head, I fought off someone who was trying to take my duty weapon to kill themselves. They were in so much mental pain they kept pleading with me to help them. Enough of that.

I have always been open to that I suffered a short term depression in 2003 :loco and missed 12 weeks of work for it. I was anti depressants for 6 months and have been fine since. Doctor diagnosed it from PTSD from work and childhood happenings. He said basically I did not deal with the problems, I just stuffed them and my body finally said TIME OUT. I was saved and through all of the misery of it, I knew the Lord was there and all would be ok. Looking back, I see that he let me go through it to have compassion on others. My view of mental illness changed 180 degrees after that.

I agree with the statments that most things are brought on my self and can be dealt with spiritually but there are some who need the meds.

I was lucky, my doctor is a Christian and not a pill pusher as ive seen before.

God Bless you all. :smile

[speerjp1]

A couple of questions come to mind whenever this topic is discussed:

1) Is the brain the origin of our thoughts?
2) Do the chemicals involved in running our physical bodies have control over our souls?

Preface: I have folks in my family who have been on medicine to correct chemical imbalances. I am not totally anti-medication when it comes to mental, emotional, or so-called psychological problems. (I say "so-called" because "psychology" literally means "study of the soul." It is man's attempt at repairing the problems of the soul. It is contradictory to the Bible by its very nature.) These types of discussions always seem to be driven by anecdotes, which are notoriously different for each person, and therefore not really good ways to draw conclusions. I do think it is good to talk about, though, because through someone's testimony we may come to new realizations.

One of the great evidences of the fact that we are created beings is the inexplicable nature of the human soul. There is no way that human thoughts, especially abstract thoughts such as love, hate, and justice, originate in the brain. The brain is no more than a mass of neurological material required to operate this bondage we call the flesh or body.

I have witnessed folks who've been diagnosed with chemical imbalances who apparently brought the imbalance upon themselves. I know of 3 preachers/evangelists that I'm thinking of right now who all committed suicide in the last 5 years. It is so sad. If folks take an honest look at the lives of these men, however, they see that they were constantly worried over things God never intended for men to worry about (like what all problems were going on in churches and what Christian had fallen into sin) and constantly gossiped from behind the pulpit, spreading their poison across our nation. It was as if their knowledge of sin within the church was some kind of drug to them.

I myself was a part of a church briefly where that seemed to be the norm. I even slipped into it for a while.

Everyone knows that feeling you get in your stomach when you hear about something that is sad, or evil, or gross, or perverted. For a while (10 years ago) I would say that I was addicted to this feeling. It became routine to discuss what wall was going wrong in another brother's life or who had done what. Of course, not much real wrong was going on, so the end result was that many things were invented to be wrong and "unBiblical" in order to keep topics of discussion and derision going. I didn't realize at the time that physiological reactions to knowledge are chemically based and those chemicals are literally as addictive as any known illicit drug. Sadly, I saw many professing Christians fall into this addiction and never recover. As I already mentioned, I've seen some kill themselves.

I don't think that a comparison of the brain to the liver as an excuse for having mental disorders holds any water.

God is a Spirit. We are created in his image as a soul. My soul is me. My body is just a temporary medium that binds my soul to this temporary world with all of its temporary problems and temporary pleasures. Too many people are so enthralled with their body that they allow it to control their soul. In fact, most Christians have uttered the false statement, "I have a soul." We do not have a soul: we are a soul. We have a body. We need to keep things in God's perspective.

If our thoughts originate in our soul (and they do), then we have no excuse before God for letting this physical body control our soul in any area. Yes, our physical bodies may control what we can and can't do physically, but it shouldn't control what we can and can't do spiritually. For example, paralysis shouldn't keep a person from praying or witnessing or being Christ-like. By the same token, a chemical imbalance shouldn't keep a Christian from exercising brotherly love or love toward his neighbor or love for God. If it does, then that person has allowed their physical situation to overtake their soul and what they are called to do spiritually, which principally is to worship God in spirit and in truth. We do that best through the sacrifice of obedience. Omission of these things is sin.

That being said, I've known many Christians, including myself, who've struggled with some things mentally and only gotten victory when pleasing God became the primary focus of our lives.

I've also known some whom it seems nothing ever helps. I do not know what is going on in those situations neither do I presume to know what is going on in those situations. That is up to God.

But I do know what has always helped me and countless other Christians for centuries (even before Prozac was invented).

[JerryNumbers]

So your diagnoses is, sight unseen, that anyone who seems to have mental problem of any type, that it is caused from and only by their very own sin? If they would only confess their sin, have enough faith, them all would be well.

So by the same token you would have to say all sickness is caused by a persons very on sin, but yet the Bible never makes that claim.

Jam 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Seems clear, if the sickness is caused by sin, the prayer of faith will save that sick person if they committed sin, remember it only says IF they committed sin, so all sickness is not a direct result of that persons sins.

Is the two birth defects within my head that causes me so much trouble caused by my sin, sin that I refuse to confess? Would your advise to me be, don't seek help from a medical doctor, repent of your sin, put all your faith in God thru Christ, then all the hurting and pain will disappear, and or I can live with it, without it affecting me from day to day.

[deputydog530]

I don't think that a comparison of the brain to the liver as an excuse for having mental disorders holds any water.

Question. Do you have a medical degree? I dont either, I am just going by what I have learned over the years, in part from the brain surgeion that operated on my father. According to him it is an organ as any other.

A lot of my information ive learned over the years has come in part from true Christian Doctors. Not trying to start anything, but I will stick with them.

Take for Instance Bi-Polar. Recent studies with the PET scan of the brain shows when a Bi-polar person cycles (mood swings) the brain shows siezure activity. For years the Doctors wondered why anti-seizure meds is what worked with Bi-polar. Then, later in life some Bi-polars develop epilepsy. Hmmmm makes you think. 30 years ago you were told your crazy and locked away in some cases. Now, with meds people with disorders lead normal life. By the way if a person is Bi-Polar they are born with it and it usually starts to manifest in the Teen years. (Or so the medical professionals have told me)

Im not disputing the bulk of what you said. I have posted that I agree that God is often the remedy and a lot of the time the person brings it on themselves but there is plenty of proof that people are born with or get brain illness the same as any other illness of the organs.

3/4 of hte suicides I investigated were situational depression ( depressed from lifestyle, alcohol, drugs, etc.)

If we say the brain is different then where do retarded people fit in. Should they read he bible and be completly normal?

Again, if your doing what the bible says and walking with the Lord daily and there is still a consistant problem a person better check with thier doctor.

Heart problems can bring on depression and anxiety etc.

ok, ill stop now. :wave:

[speerjp1]

So your diagnoses is, sight unseen, that anyone who seems to have mental problem of any type, that it is caused from and only by their very own sin? If they would only confess their sin, have enough faith, them all would be well.

So by the same token you would have to say all sickness is caused by a persons very on sin, but yet the Bible never makes that claim.

Jam 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Seems clear, if the sickness is caused by sin, the prayer of faith will save that sick person if they committed sin, remember it only says IF they committed sin, so all sickness is not a direct result of that persons sins.

Is the two birth defects within my head that causes me so much trouble caused by my sin, sin that I refuse to confess? Would your advise to me be, don't seek help from a medical doctor, repent of your sin, put all your faith in God thru Christ, then all the hurting and pain will disappear, and or I can live with it, without it affecting me from day to day.

That is not even close to what I said.

I addressed what I believe to be the cause of most non-physical disorders: not doing things the way God wants us to do them. Surely, you wouldn't argue with the fact that the majority of folks in the world are not doing things the way God would have them do them.

I also addressed what I believe to be legitimate problems caused by such things as chemical imbalances, regardless of what causes that.

My point in a nutshell is that even when a person has mental and emotional disorders, just as when they have a physical problem, it is not an excuse to sin. Paul had some kind of "thorn" in his flesh, but he didn't allow that to stop him from being completely dedicated to God.

I commend anyone who has a mental or physical disorder and they still serve the Lord and don't use it as an excuse to leave their family, church, or faith (as so many seem to do).

[speerjp1]

Question. Do you have a medical degree? I dont either, I am just going by what I have learned over the years, in part from the brain surgeion that operated on my father. According to him it is an organ as any other.

I prefaced my post disclaiming most of what was said as anecdotal. I do not have to have a medical degree to know that the brain isn't just an organ like all the others. I wouldn't even regard that as the opinion of most medical professionals (unless they're trying to allay the fears of a family whose loved one is getting ready to have brain surgery). Here is what Wikipedia says on the matter that I was addressing:

The mind-body problem is one of the central problems in the history of philosophy. The brain is the physical and biological matter contained within the skull, responsible for electrochemical neuronal processes. The mind, in contrast, consists in mental attributes, such as beliefs, desires, perceptions, and so on. There are scientifically demonstrable correlations between mental events and neuronal events; the philosophical question is whether these phenomena are identical, at least partially distinct, or related in some other way.

No other "organ" has ever been shown to have any type of connection with our non-physical selves. That is what sets the brain apart.

Please re-read my post without reading any kind of hostility into it. Read my preface.

I honestly can't see why you and Jerry#'s have responded the way you have.

[JerryNumbers]

Did you notice that I asked all of what I said in the form of a question?

Here once again is the question I asked.

<<"So by the same token you would have to say all sickness is caused by a persons very on sin?>>

You know, if this was not a fallen world, there are many problems we would never face. But because it is a fallen world, we have many things to deal with.

But I was asking a question, here is is again in case you messed it or did not understand it. You seem to think I was accusing when I only asked a question.

<<"So your diagnoses is, sight unseen, that anyone who seems to have mental problem of any type, that it is caused from and only by their very own sin?">>

Seems we all get a bit thin skinned and jump in and defend our self so quick, many times without really taking time to process what the person really said. Seems lately it has been getting worse.

But I will admit that this can be a touchy subject with me for I have seen 1st hand how mental troubles can destroy a person life and the effects it can have on that persons father and mother and me. You ought to see the hurt in a father and mother who has a daughters life destroyed by such problems. I hope you never have to face a loved one whose life is competely taken away from them becasue of meantal troubles.

[speerjp1]

So by the same token you would have to say all sickness is caused by a persons very on sin?

Nope. :thumb

So your diagnoses is' date=' sight unseen, that anyone who seems to have mental problem of any type, that it is caused from and only by their very own sin[/quote']

Nope. :thumb

[war_eagle]

In all humility I ask this...

Is it OK for one who is saved to use prescription anti-anxiety and/or anti-depressants, under the supervision of his/her physician? If long-term use is not OK, what about temporary use?

I know Jesus is the great healer, but I'm curious for input on this issue as it sort of hits close to home.

Thanks to all in advance.

Why would you think it's wrong? If you had diabetes, would you be asking the same question about taking insulin?

I suffer from clinical depression and there was a period of about a year and a half where I was on anti-depressants and I literally could not have functioned without them. I no longer need them, but I thank God for making them available when I did need them.

There's nothing wrong with taking medicine for an illness. The only thing I would be cautious about is that, in our society today, there's a terrible trend of overmedication and medicating when medication is not necessary.

If you need medication, fine, but it should not be your first resort.

[JerryNumbers]

Nope. :thumb



Thanks for answering that question.

But there are those who thinks whatever sickness or mental problems a person has, sin is the fault and the only cure is confessing ones sins.

I recall the 1st person I ever heard that committed suicide. He was a senior in high school at the time, everyone was in totally shock. I might add, he was quite a bit older than I, I did not know him.

But I remember after the shock wore off, some his close friends realized they saw signs that this would come to past, that was way back in the early 60's. Its so sad that many times we don't realize such things before it happens. But it is so easy to miss the signs.

In fact this young man took his life not to far behind the church I now pastor. When they 1st called me to preach for them that was one of the 1st things that hit my mind.

Thank goodness that now days there is more treatment for depression than they were in the 60's, and most people are more aware of some of the signs that goes along with it.

Right after I got out of the air force in 69 a young man I had not known before the air force when to work where I was working, them very shortly he committed suicide. I was totally shocked for he was a rather jolly person.

We never know what is going on in a persons mind.

[deputydog530]

Speerjp1

I read your post several times, I know what you said.

You seem to have a problem with my response. It was not intended to jab at you or anyone. If I offended you, I appologize. You asked some questions and I asked some.

Yes the brain is uniuqe. It is the "main frame" if you will to the body. However it is still a physical, flesh and blood organ. It can get sick, it can be damaged. And there are meds that can fix it. I think ive been very clear about medications and that I dont agree with overmedication etc.

I asked about a mentally retarded person, no one touched that.

What about the person in the car wreck with permanent brain damage?

Just some toughts.

Perhaps you cant see how Jerry# and I have responded because the Lord has kept you from walking a mile in our shoes.

The Lord is so good he lets us go through things and expirience things for both spiritual growth and to help others and have compassion.

God Bless. :thumb
you said

[deputydog530]

war_eagle wrote:

Why would you think it's wrong? If you had diabetes, would you be asking the same question about taking insulin?

I suffer from clinical depression and there was a period of about a year and a half where I was on anti-depressants and I literally could not have functioned without them. I no longer need them, but I thank God for making them available when I did need them.

There's nothing wrong with taking medicine for an illness. The only thing I would be cautious about is that, in our society today, there's a terrible trend of overmedication and medicating when medication is not necessary.

If you need medication, fine, but it should not be your first resort.

:wave:

[speerjp1]

Perhaps you cant see how Jerry# and I have responded because the Lord has kept you from walking a mile in our shoes.

The Lord is so good he lets us go through things and expirience things for both spiritual growth and to help others and have compassion.

God Bless. :thumb
you said

The Bible doesn't teach that we must experience something before we have a Bible-based opinion about it. :thumb

As with most things, what some people call love or compassion could be just the opposite if we let our pity keep us from standing on the truth of God's word.

I wish there were some way we could know what the disciples, apostles, and early church did to calm their fears, worries, depression, and other emotional and mental disorders since they didn't have psychologists and meds to rely on.

There is no reason to make little of what has worked for so many Christians for so many centuries.

Brain damage and retardation is another discussion all together. This topic is about anxiety and depression.