I have a question

[Rosie]

I've been saved for 32 1/2 years. for 30 years I have heard that we will be judged on the judgement day.. now for the past 2 years I have heard that we are judged as soon as we get to heaven... i need clarification on this please

[Invicta]

1 hour ago, Rosie said:

I've been saved for 32 1/2 years. for 30 years I have heard that we will be judged on the judgement day.. now for the past 2 years I have heard that we are judged as soon as we get to heaven... i need clarification on this please

Joh 6:39  And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 11:24  Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 12:48  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

[Rosie]

Invicta I know I am eternally secure.. I am just not sure when our judgment is.. thank you for taking time to answer this question

[DaveW]

As you know, your salvation is settled and you will not be judged for it again.

But there is another judgement.

Rev 20

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

 12  And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 13  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. note

 14  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

Now, there is some conjecture about whether saved people will be judged here, but whoever is being judged is being judged for their works from "the books" vs 12 ( note: plural).

However, vs 15 says that judgement of who is cast into the lake of fire is done from the "book of life" - separate from "the books" which is judgement for works.

What is clear is that the works judgement is not for salvation, but you know that.

[DaveW]

I should probably add as a cross reference:

1 Cor 3

11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

 12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

 13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

 15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This is talking to those who have laid the foundation in Jesus Christ - in other words, the saved man.

But it clearly states that what they build upon thay foundation will be judged - that is, our works.

It mentions that there will be reward or loss according to what is built upon the foundation, but vs 15 is crystal clear - this is not about salvation - if the foundation is there, "he himself shall be saved".

Some equate this judgement with the judgement of Rev 20 - I am not 100% certain., but I think this is the confusion you talk of.

Some say it is the same, others say they are different.

Both will happen though.

[Rosie]

I appreciate all of your answers but what i want to know is when will we be judged as soon as we die or at a later time

[wretched]

Please consider my quickly written opinion:

I believe the two judgments we traditional speak of are accurate and are tied directly to the two different resurrections God speaks of:

The resurrection of the just occurs at the catching away of the church. And there is a separate resurrection of the just from the unjust. ²⁹And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Luke 14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: 14And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Acts 24:15And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust (this speaks of separate resurrections as other Scripture references discuss)

The Judgment seat of Christ begins at the rapture with the church saints and continues through the Great Tribulation with the trib saints. As more are murdered/martyred during the tribulation, they are judged for their works on earth during the tribulation.

The Great White Throne Judgement of the lost occurs after the 1000 year reign of Christ and is the second resurrection (as I note and bolded below). In order to rule and reign with Christ, we must be part of the first resurrection that occurs at all points of the tribulation beginning at the rapture of the church else what capacity would our ruling positions be determined by?:

Rev 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them (indicating judging is taking place during the tribulation): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished (this is a caveat inserted to distinguish between the resurrection of the saved-FIRST resurrection and the resurrection of the lost- SECOND resurrection). This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This passage makes it clear to me that the just's judgment occurs during the tribulation, determining position of rulership during the 1000 year reign and NOT 1000 years later when all the lost are judged and condemned.

The church age saints judged at the beginning of the tribulation and those martyred (to be saved) throughout the tribulation. All of these rule and reign and their levels of reward/crowns and rank comes from the pure faith works they perform during their physical lives. Although there are some hints that the tribulation saints will hold higher positions of rulership than the church saints (the first-last/last-first parable) I personally believe however that the church age saints will have more rewards and positions of higher authority than those saved during the tribulation. Why, because these trib saints will have the full benefit of sight to believe and a very short period to serve-all indications are that this service will be more in the form of martyrdom as the above passage indicates. The trib saints will see first hand God's miracles, signs and wonders which the church age saints never got to see post Apostles. We got saved by faith without sight of any type and are "bless-ed" to God more so than any other groups in History IMweightofSriptureO. Not only do we rule and reign with Christ but we will judge angels (I Cor 6:3).

Sorry for all the bolding but I figure some inflection might help in the explanation's understanding......

[Invicta]

Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Just one judgment mentioned.

2 Co 5:10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Doesn't say all Christians but "all",  This is pesumably when the  books were opened. Not for salvation at that time., but after the books are openrd for works judgment, the book of life is opened.

Re 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. The judgment for salvation. We are told that Christians are not here as they are not mentioned, but they are implied as if there are those who are not in the book of life, there must be those whose names are written in the book of life, in fact they are mentioned a few verses later in the next chapter.

Re 21:27  And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.:
Also i believe there is only one second coming, not one coming for the saints and one with the saints, not two comings, or three or more, as some teach.  Just one.  Acts 1:10  And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11  Which also sai,d, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. He is coming the same way that he departed into heaven
 

[Rosie]

thank you so much for your answers

[DaveW]

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

The penalty for sin was judged at the cross and applied when you were saved. 

Every man's works will be judged separately.

This is where the "timing dispute" comes in.

Rev 20 does only specifically mention "the dead small and great" and some say that precludes the saved.

I am more incli ed to agree with Wretched on this one, but am not 100% settled.

One thing is settled with me - it is only the judgement of works which is involved in this question, not of salvation, otherwise we wouldn't have: 2 Cor 5

8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Only two choices for a saved person - in the body or in the presence of the Lord - therefore judgement for sin must be completed before death. But tge passage then continues.....

 

 9  Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

 10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Judgement for works follows on some time after, and separately.

[Rosie]

Dave do I understand your last sentence correctly as meaning there will be 2 judgments for the Christian.. my sentence still isn't answered, it judgment day for the Christian at the moment of death or after the rapture

[DaveW]

Your sin was judged in Christ on the cross and applied to you when you were saved by Grace through faith. 

1 Cor 3:11 - 15 above shows works judged but "he himself shall be saved".

This is talking to those who have the foundation of Christ.

[Rosie]

yes I am aware of that but us Christians will stand before the judgement seat of Christ, this is what I am talking about.... am I missing something here

[No Nicolaitans]

49 minutes ago, Rosie said:

yes I am aware of that but us Christians will stand before the judgement seat of Christ, this is what I am talking about.... am I missing something here

I believe that what Dave is saying is this...

1. Believers won't be judged for sin, because believer's sins were judged and paid for by Christ...so that "judgment" is past.

2. Believers will be judged according to our works at the judgment seat of Christ in the future.

When the judgment seat of Christ takes place is uncertain. Some believe it will happen for each believer individually when they die. Some believe it will happen for all believers...all at once...after the rapture. Still, others believe it will happen at the end of the Tribulation Period, and yet again, some believe it will happen (and coincide) during the Great White Throne judgment at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ.

I tend to lean toward the "after the rapture" timing, but I'm not dogmatic about it. All that I can say with certainty is...it will happen.

[wretched]

Rosie,

The best hint at the timing is contained in this passage which I mentioned earlier. The Judgment Seat has nothing to do with the death of believers. It has to do with the resurrection of believers. The resurrection of the just most likely will be at the catching away of the church because it is the only discernible and corresponding event that would make Scriptural sense: Those saved afterward during the trib are judged as they are martyred according to Rev 20.

Luke 14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: 14And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

I see no other cooresponding event in which this resurrection of the just is referring too apart from the rapture. Of course this may be incorrect but with what we have been given by God in His Word, there is no "knowable" alternative IMO.

However, I and others may be misunderstanding the question. Perhaps you could give more background into the context and reason the question was raised?