HOW SHOULD WE VOTE?

[John81]

9 minutes ago, Old-Pilgrim said:

Jefferson as far as I know never denied 'christ', but he did deny the 'Christ of the Bible', as in the so called Jefferson Bible had many parts cut out, mostly the parts concerning miracles. He believed 'reason' should be above faith. And so in essence was a 'Luciferian' or a Sadducee (no faith).

If a person denies Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, Saviour, then they are denying Christ.

 

[swathdiver]

15 hours ago, John81 said:

Jefferson didn't believe Jesus was the Christ, he didn't believe Jesus was the son of God, he didn't believe in the God of the Bible, he believed every miracle recorded in the Bible was made up. What Jefferson did like about the Bible was some of the principles he believed would work well for an ordered society.

Considering most candidates profess to be Christian, some even giving conversion testimonies, how do we determine whether they are worthy of our vote? You said above, "Christians vote for the only or best Christian running or stay home". How do we determine whether to vote or stay home?

As you probably recall, many on this forum have asserted during other election cycles that a candidates religion isn't important, only that they say they will follow the Constitution. Some have said they would rather vote for an atheist who would abide by the Constitution than vote for a Christian who wouldn't. How do we factor that?

I wonder why then Jefferson dated his letters and documents "In the Year of Our Lord, Jesus Christ, 17XX"?  One of us has been fed a bunch of baloney, I think you should stop reading those biographies written by liberals John!

I didn't see Way of Life's RSS feed, today's was made just for you John.

As for your first and second, Cloud gives you a great answer, mine would be and has been the same.  Compare their walk  and fruit with the Scriptures.

As for your last question, that ignores and sets aside Christ's doctrine of separation.  There was a time when I held to the same view, but the scriptures set me right.

Wouldn't it be awesome that if Trump got elected, that he also got saved and used the bully pulpit as POTUS to teach and read from the scriptures to the nation?  Wouldn't it be cool to see him pass from them that are lost to them that are saved and grow in grace in Jesus Christ?  I was hopeful for such happening with President Obama but the devil has full control over that poor man.

[John81]

4 hours ago, swathdiver said:

I wonder why then Jefferson dated his letters and documents "In the Year of Our Lord, Jesus Christ, 17XX"?  One of us has been fed a bunch of baloney, I think you should stop reading those biographies written by liberals John!

I didn't see Way of Life's RSS feed, today's was made just for you John.

As for your first and second, Cloud gives you a great answer, mine would be and has been the same.  Compare their walk  and fruit with the Scriptures.

As for your last question, that ignores and sets aside Christ's doctrine of separation.  There was a time when I held to the same view, but the scriptures set me right.

Wouldn't it be awesome that if Trump got elected, that he also got saved and used the bully pulpit as POTUS to teach and read from the scriptures to the nation?  Wouldn't it be cool to see him pass from them that are lost to them that are saved and grow in grace in Jesus Christ?  I was hopeful for such happening with President Obama but the devil has full control over that poor man.

I've not been reading liberal biographies but Jefferson's own writings. It was common practice to use "year of our Lord" type datings at that time.

Since we are able to actually very little, if any, actual fruit in a candidates lives since most all of what we see is scripted, just how do we determine their walk and fruit? For every candidate for president I've looked at which has made it far not a single one has a walk that matches their talk, and that's for the past several election cycles. You know many folks here have claimed if you don't vote or a Republican candidate you are letting the Democrat win (I don't agree with that false assumption).

Yes, whoever wins the presidency it would be great to see them born again in Christ and on fire for the Lord, openly declaring His glory and proclaiming His Word.

[Old-Pilgrim]

7 hours ago, swathdiver said:

I wonder why then Jefferson dated his letters and documents "In the Year of Our Lord, Jesus Christ, 17XX"?  One of us has been fed a bunch of baloney.

There has been a movement which attempts to unify Christianity with the New Age or 'mystery religion', Rosicrucianism specialized in this, so members would often sound 'christian'.

[Invicta]

Whoever wins it will be God's choice. 

Dan 4:25  That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
Dan 4:32  And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
Dan 5:21  And he was driven from the sons of men; and his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild asses: they fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven; till he knew that the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.
 

[MountainChristian]

1823 April 11. (Jefferson to John Adams). "The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors."

https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/jeffersons-religious-beliefs

 

[swathdiver]

Look fellas, Jefferson and Franklin were not saved the bible's way.  They were some of the least religious of our Founding Fathers and leftists love to remind us of that.  Why are y'all making such a fuss anyways?

Now Invicta, I take exception to your statement that the winner will be God's Choice.  

I gather that the Lord will allow to win the Presidency the man that America deserves.  He'll either intercede on behalf of the people if they cry out to Him, or he'll let old man satan put his man in the office instead.  We may not like the outcome, but either way, God gets the glory.

[Invicta]

On 3/20/2016 at 8:24 AM, swathdiver said:

Now Invicta, I take exception to your statement that the winner will be God's Choice.  

Sorry you feel that way, I only posted what I find in scripture,

[HappyChristian]

Invicta, your statement does not take into account the form of our government. As set up by our founders, we the people are to choose the servant-leaders who are to follow the Constitution. God's will is that American Christians follow biblical principle in voting for candidates who are to sit in office of leadership. In our republican form of government, God's choice is that we the people choose wisely. If we do not, we don't get "God's choice" so much as our reaping of ignorant voting. Rex Lex. Not a man for whom we vote.

http://www.afa.net/the-stand/government/2016/03/the-bible-does-tell-us-who-to-vote-for/

 

I apologize in advance for the scripture reference in the article not being KJB. Here are the KJB verses: (I realize that we do not live under OT economy, nor is the POTUS a judge, but the application is as appropriate as any OT verses would be...especially in light of what the NT teaches us as to how we are to live and make decisions...)

Exodus 18:21-22King James Version (KJV)

²¹ Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:

²² And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee.

[Genevanpreacher]

The Lord already knows who we're gonna get, or deserve, whether the 'leader' be a blessing or curse, and as such already knew who was going to vote and who wasn't.

He can turn the heart of both.

So if you choose to vote or not - God works it out, not us.

[John81]

America is not ancient Israel

The Founders intended that only a select few actually determine who is president.

God is in control.

 

[HappyChristian]

I never said America was ancient Israel. Nor did I even hint at it. I find it utterly amusing that you will apply OT scripture when you think it apropos, but when it is applied as proof text on something in which you disagree, you pull out the "we're not under the law" or "America is not Israel" card. It's funny - you most likely agree with the direction Invicta mentioned...and yet he used words God said to Israel, too...

In point of fact, though, you are 100% correct that America is not Israel. Nor is America Rome. Nor is it England. Individual nations are set up governmentally in different ways. America was set up as a representational government, with the law as king and We the People as the choosers of the servant-leaders who are to create, execute, and adjudicate those laws. Yes, the founders did intend that only certain people were to vote. But throughout the years, Congress exercised the power the Constitution gives it to create law, and that included the changing of voting laws (just for the record, I would have no problem to going back to the way the founders set things up...but even some on here might not like that because not everyone owns property, or is male, etc...although before women got the vote, there was less emotion involved in voting...now even the men get emotional).

That said, the principle of looking for the right kind of men to be in leadership is most definitely scriptural. God gifted us a different kind of set up in this country. We are allowed to choose whom we desire to be in the office of servant-leader. But that choice needs to be made in line with scripture. And it amazes me that men who proclaim the name of Christ would not be willing to admit it.

God did not put BO in office. Ignorant Americans - including lazy Christians did that. God allowed it. Because that is the way GOD allowed our country to be set up. What He ordained in America was We the People. When we fail in our role as self-governors and choosers of our servant-leaders, we reap...and we reaped BO. I certainly hope we don't reap a Bernie, a Hillary, or a Trump this time. God is merciful, and I'm praying for His mercy.

[Ronda]

Lately, I've seen (on many groups) politics divide even the nicest of people. It reminds me of growing up... we had wonderful parents, both excellent role models. Sure they probably made some mistakes here and there (they are human after all), but all in all, I am so very blessed to have been born into that family. My Dad definitely "wore the pants" in the family, and my Mom went with whatever he said (even when he was in the wrong and even when it bothered her). My Dad was the more emotional of the 2, not in any effeminate kind of way by any means... it was always interesting around election time. My Dad would give long winded reasons why he was voting for whomever he was voting for at the time. We kids couldn't have cared less, we were kids! My Mom kept quiet about her opinions,  we kids could see a look of disgust on her face (even though she tried to hide it). But on voting day, they would come home and my Dad would say "well, your Mom's vote just cancelled out my vote", and then it was back to family business as usual. Both came from independent Baptist families both had a deep love for the Lord. Both did many things in their lives to serve the Lord (including raising us kids with Bible studies, prayer, and teaching). We were in church every time the doors were open (and Mom cleaned, took us to help also, on many days as well). Dad devoted time and money to church maintenance and building.  They were both great examples of how even when their opinions clashed (and politics was a big clash) they managed to put it aside and go on with the love of the Lord being the foundation.

[John81]

"Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth." Colossians 3:2 

[HappyChristian]

 

"Moreover it is required in a steward that a man be found faithful." God gifted us with this country...and those who allow it to be stolen from us are as guilty as the thieves.

 

Ronda, politics does divide people. It has since way back. But, so, too, do many other things. Beliefs about scripture abound, even here amongst mostly IFB. Since the time we were married, I determined that I wasn't going to "cancel" my husband's vote. When we married, we became one, a unit that functions together for the same purpose. So I always vote in the same way as he does - or I don't vote. But we do discuss things. We actually discuss everything (my mother was telling me the other day that she enjoys hearing us talk about every little thing...something she and my dad did not do), including politics. We pray for guidance about whom or what (if it's a referendum, tax, school issue, etc....school issues, even though our son never went to the public school, do affect us in many ways, and since our taxes pay for it, we have a responsibility to take it seriously) to vote. And we discuss the pros and cons of all candidates and issues.

As we pray and discuss, we always end up agreeing. Except for one time - a water issue...I didn't vote, and he turned out to be right . But other than that one thing, we are in agreement.

I grew up in a politically/history savvy family, and even as a child had an interest in all things to do with government/history. My Grandfather was one of the early, early members of the John Birch Society (family has not been members for many years), and my Mom and Dad were also for a couple of years of my childhood. So I grew up surrounded by politics, history, and an outspoken love for country (as well as a great appreciation for the gift from God that it was). All of my siblings have the same outlook that I do, even if we don't agree on candidates all the time. As we were rearing our son, he was involved - willingly and vocally -  in a lot of our discussions and it formed his outlook as well. Even though he is long gone from our home, we actually still vote the same way. 

I think even on here folks put aside their disagreements re: politics pretty well after elections. Disagreements about scripture? Not so much.