Interesting Perspective

[1Timothy115]

We often quote, 2 Corinthians 9:7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

Does the Bible speak about cheerful non-givers?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I am sure God loves His own whether they have something to give or not.

 

the verse is addressing those that give, whether they are doing so voluntarily and because of their love for Him, as opposed to those who don't want to give but do anyway because of coercion or undue pressure from a man-made commandment.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Salyan]

There do seem to be a good number of verses supporting the idea that we should give:

Acts 20:35

Luke 6:38

Luke 12:33-34

The entire passage of 2 Corinthians 9 encourages giving (which is interesting, as that contains the 'cheerful clause').

We definitely see that God wants us to give what we do give cheerfully - but the verse preceding that encourages us to give bountifully, and the verse following reminds us that God will take care of our needs. Looks like we shouldn't be using the 'cheerful clause' as an excuse not to give!

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Acts 20:35, when kept in context, is not speaking of giving by all.  Rather, it is speaking of Elders of the Church giving to meet the needs of those who are poor.

 

luke 6:38 addresses giving that all should... specifically, alms giving.

Luke 12:33-34 is also addressing alms giving.

[John81]

Clearly there is a big difference between a "cheerful giver" and a "begrudging giving" or "only out of duty or guilt giver". That would seem to be what the verse is referring to.

Scripture is clear we are called to be "givers"...to help needy brethren, to care for the widow and orphan, to help the poor, to spread the Gospel, etc.

If one abides in the Word, doing as the Word says, they will have joy and be cheerful. If one refuses to abide by the Word their joy will be limited or lost along with their cheerfulness.

There are many ways to cheerfully give, even if we have no money. We can cheerfully give our time, talents, prayers.

[1Timothy115]

I don't see this verse as specifically addressing time, talents, and prayers except that it requires time, talents, and prayers to physically and spiritually collect for this ministration to the saints. Although those saints be abroad (I think this was a gathering for Jerusalem's Saints) it would appear we would also cheerfully give in accordance with those other verses of the entire chapter. If not for Jerusalem then for some saints in some other location.

Paul didn't want to be ashamed... 2 Corinthians 9:4
Also, this is demonstration of "professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ" 2 Corinthians 9:13
Further, the "so let him give;" is only their as a help 2 Corinthians 9:7
In reference to coercive, I believe the following was very coercive "that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready" 2 Corinthians 9:5 . It's sad that Paul had to resort to this but, I see it increasing today; Christians who have to have a new iPad or iPhone before they give something out of the abundance of their hearts. Withholding while knowing a great need of the local church no matter if it's infrastructure to support the continuing gospel or the direct need of other Christians or community poor.
 
The question wasn't about God withholding love from non-givers.
The question: Does the Bible speak about cheerful non-givers?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

This verse gives me cheer when  I don't have any money to give. (which is more often than not due to my necessities demanding the better part of my disability checks)

2 Corinthians 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.

[Salyan]

You know, SFIC, I don't know why you seem so prickly about the subject of monetary giving. If you haven't got any money to give, then obviously you can't give it - and I don't know anyone here who would demonize you for that. Why you think it necessary to defend that idea to the enth degree I have no idea - but, as the old saying goes, 'methinks thou dost protest too much.' Your bad attitude about giving is infectious, and that is not a good thing. How about you let us have an honest discussion about giving without poisoning it, eh?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I didn't think I was "poisoning" anything.  I was merely imparting truth in a discussion.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Back to the question,  it appears this example of  "non-giving" may be seen as "cheerful" (though the end result would certainly not be)...

 

James 2:15 (KJV) 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 (KJV) 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?

 

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:42 (KJV) 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

Matthew 25:43 (KJV) 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Matthew 25:44 (KJV) 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Matthew 25:45 (KJV) 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.

Matthew 25:46 (KJV) 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Standing Firm In Christ

[John81]

I don't see this verse as specifically addressing time, talents, and prayers except that it requires time, talents, and prayers to physically and spiritually collect for this ministration to the saints. Although those saints be abroad (I think this was a gathering for Jerusalem's Saints) it would appear we would also cheerfully give in accordance with those other verses of the entire chapter. If not for Jerusalem then for some saints in some other location.

Paul didn't want to be ashamed... 2 Corinthians 9:4
Also, this is demonstration of "professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ" 2 Corinthians 9:13
Further, the "so let him give;" is only their as a help 2 Corinthians 9:7
In reference to coercive, I believe the following was very coercive "that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready" 2 Corinthians 9:5 . It's sad that Paul had to resort to this but, I see it increasing today; Christians who have to have a new iPad or iPhone before they give something out of the abundance of their hearts. Withholding while knowing a great need of the local church no matter if it's infrastructure to support the continuing gospel or the direct need of other Christians or community poor.
 
The question wasn't about God withholding love from non-givers.
The question: Does the Bible speak about cheerful non-givers?

​You are correct, this particular verse doesn't address other forms of giving, I simply pointed out those areas of giving which even the poor or totally broke are able to participate in.

I don't know there is any verse speaking of cheerful non-givers, or of those who choose to sin in other ways unless we stretch the "pleasures of sin for a time" concept to cover cheerfulness in disobeying God.

As we read in First Corinthians 13 even if we are doing this and that as we ought, if we are not doing it in love then it counts for nothing.

Our cheerfulness in giving must come from a heart of love towards God. Most of us probably know of some who give only because they feel they have to, whether out of a sense of guilt or a duty they must perform, and they are miserable in their doing so. There are also some who give for the sake of recognition for their contributions, and there is no true cheerfulness there.

Looking back at my own life there was a time when my giving was done because I felt I "had to", not because of my love for the Lord and desire to cheerfully give. Praise God the Lord led me to study out such matters and I learned the central aspect of giving isn't about money, it's about a heart joyfully surrendered to Christ. From that point on when it came to giving it wasn't a matter of, "Well God, here's Your money", it was more like, "Thank you Lord for allowing me to give back to you out of what You have provided to me and allowing me to play a part in expanding your kingdom".

[1Timothy115]

As soon as I came across the text of 2 Corinthians 9 the question above occured to me. Within the bounds of the chapter there can be little to cheer about if people withhold from giving or do not prepare for giving. Anyone who would have cheerfulness over non-giving will lose that glee as soon as they are next to appear before the Judgement Seat of Jesus Christ. Paul said there is shame in it. If there is shame in it there is sin somewhere around it. If there is sin it can be confessed. If confession is made before coming to the Bema Seat of Jesus I don't personally believe it will be discussed; for me there would be plenty more for my shame.

I can't begin to profess guiltlessness in the grace of giving. I'll have tears for some unrecalled time when God wanted me to grow in "this grace also" but, I ignored it.

2 Corinthians 8:7 "Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also."    

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I don't see it as a mandatory amount, but an exhorted giving.  Paul even says he sent others there to make the bounty beforehand.  

 

In in other words, if the needed funds were not enough, Paul had placed as backers, men of means.  Where the saints at Corinth fell short, these men would carry the burden.

 

Paul encourages them to give, reminding them that the more they gave, the more God would reward them.  The less they gave, the less God would reward them.  The shame would be in knowing certain had much to give, but they give sparingly.  We see the a perfect example of rich men giving sparingly in Mark's Gospel.

Mark 12:38 (KJV) 38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and [love] salutations in the marketplaces,

 

Mark 12:39 (KJV) 39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:

 

Mark 12:40 (KJV) 40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

 

Mark 12:41 (KJV) 41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

 

Mark 12:42 (KJV) 42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

 

Mark 12:43 (KJV) 43 And he called [unto him] his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

 

Mark 12:44 (KJV) 44 For all [they] did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, [even] all her living.

We should have a heart for giving.  But, even so, God wants our giving to be wise giving.  He does not want us to give if it is easing others, yet putting our own selves in a place where we will be financially strapped.

 

 

[1Timothy115]

I don't see it as a mandatory amount, but an exhorted giving.  Paul even says he sent others there to make the bounty beforehand.  

Paul encourages them to give, reminding them that the more they gave, the more God would reward them.  The less they gave, the less God would reward them.  The shame would be in knowing certain had much to give, but they give sparingly.  We see the a perfect example of rich men giving sparingly in Mark's Gospel.

We should have a heart for giving.  But, even so, God wants our giving to be wise giving.  He does not want us to give if it is easing others, yet putting our own selves in a place where we will be financially strapped.

Please let's keep the arguement of specified ammounts for another thread, probably in the not too distant future. I think they were being encouraged to give even though it would be painful. I agree God doesn't want us to give so much that it would be a bad testimony from us toward the world or that it would violate our scriptural responsibilities.  I will quote a scripture in regard to whether or not God wants poor or rich to give when he is teaching them this grace.

2 Corinthians 8:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia; 
2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. 
3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves; 
4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.

Take care when God gives the inflicted and poor an opportunity to give abundantly. It may be the difference in the Gospel's spread to a needy culture. God growing a grace may accomplish an outcome beyond imagination. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Under the Law, even the poor were required to give a half shekel of silver every year as an atonement offering. 

I recently researched the value of the half-shekel of silver.  Interesting study.  Amounted to approximately $8.20 of our money today. 

But, that was then, this is now. 

Today, even the poor have somewhat they can give to the ministry as they did under the Law.  The difference being, it is not mandated that they give "x" amount as under the Law.  As I stated earlier, even with my measly income, I was able to give at times.  And yes, far above the half-shekel of silver.

Yes, we can and should give.  However, under the guidelines of 2 Corinthians 8-9; i.e., graciously, willingly, and cheerfully.  But, if it means our family having to struggle and miss needed meals, then our giving should be limited and should be rejected by those who would take it otherwise.

I'm not the stingy tightwad that some would picture me as being.  Rather, I wisely use what little I have where there are needs.  And, if I have some left over after monthly groceries and bills are paid, then that is extra to be used for God's Work.  If I am heading to Church with that money, and pass a person who could use that money to buy food for their table or medicine for their children, I will stop and give that money to them rather than to the Church.  God is more honored when we do alms than when we add money to a Church account that already has thousands of dollars in it.