Agreement/disagreement With The Pastor

[GraceSaved]

Paid4: If we are both believers, sealed, redeemed, paid for, eternally secure, purchased, adopted, etc. and we disagree on an issue, we are called to separate?

Can we agree to disagree and yet agree to walk together in some measure in the work of God and in the enjoyment of brotherly fellowship and rejoice at what God is doing in the lives and ministries of others without becoming their critics? One true measure of our understanding of biblical separation may not be how quickly and how often and from how many we will separate, but with how many we will agree to walk together in true OBedience and genuine fellowship in spite of our disagreements. Demand agreement and you will find yourself exceedingly lonely and defensive. Seek OBedience and fellowship in biblical unity and your circle of faithful co-laborers in the gospel may increase. We should practice biblical separation when it is clearly a question of unbelief or disOBedience to Scripture. Yet we should desire to enjoy unity and fellowship with those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and are following him.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I don't see how one who insists the seal of Ephesians 1:13-14 can be broken is believing in the same God who inspired that verse.

The God who authored the Word cannot lie. Yet, the only way to rectify one losing Salvation is to make God a liar and His Word a lie.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Sounds like you are promoting ecuminism... which is a heretical doctrine.

[GraceSaved]

Not arriving at or understanding a passage is not the same thing as calling God a liar.

[2bLikeJesus]

GS, the topic of this thread is on a major fundamental of the faith.  Someone who believes they can lose their salvation, like it is some cooperative work between them and God, as if God started it but it is up to us to finish it or keep it going, IS NOT SAVED in my opinion.  We are not talking about disagreements over minor details of church doctrine or government (like how often should communion be OBserved and is it to be open, close or closed) we are talking about fellowship with an unsaved person.  We are not to walk with them.  

 

Bro. Garry

[HappyChristian]

Can we agree to disagree and yet agree to walk together in some measure in the work of God and in the enjoyment of brotherly fellowship and rejoice at what God is doing in the lives and ministries of others without becoming their critics? One true measure of our understanding of biblical separation may not be how quickly and how often and from how many we will separate, but with how many we will agree to walk together in true OBedience and genuine fellowship in spite of our disagreements. Demand agreement and you will find yourself exceedingly lonely and defensive. Seek OBedience and fellowship in biblical unity and your circle of faithful co-laborers in the gospel may increase. We should practice biblical separation when it is clearly a question of unbelief or disOBedience to Scripture. Yet we should desire to enjoy unity and fellowship with those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and are following him.

But is one following Christ when one teaches untruth?  Nope.  There is no true OBedience when one walks with another who is teaching wrong doctrine.  Case in point would be eternal security. If one teaches contrary to scripture, that is wrong doctrine.  The Bible tells us clearly that "evil communications corrupt good manners."  And that would be whether one is saved or lost.  

 

There is no cornerstone for unity if one teaches that one can lose salvation.  There is a difference in being friendly and walking together.  I cannot be a co-laborer with someone who believes Christians can lose salvation. Neither can anyone else who walks according to scripture.  It may be lonely (I am very unlonely as I co-labor for Christ in my church, believe me!), but we are to please God, not others nor even ourselves.

 

I just dealt this past Sunday with a young lady who is so confused about salvation because she was taught - for years -she could lose it.  Poor young mother cannot teach her children truth because she doesn't know it. She has no peace because she is in constant fear of going to Hell because she knows she's a sinner and cannot keep herself saved.  There is no way I will walk with or co-labor with those who messed her up spiritually.  Guaranteed.

[GraceSaved]

How did my seeking out understanding of scripture with other believers arrive at a conclusion that I am promoting anything? Where is the heresy in wanting sound, Biblical advice from other seasoned believers? Did I make a mistake in doing that? I have a choice to take it or leave it and I also have an OBligation to allow the Holy Spirit to guide me and help me to truth and understanding, which I will do. I admit I have trouble sometimes with passages as we all do but that doesn't mean I am trying to be heretical or promoting false doctrine. Now you are being hurtful and not helpful.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

GS, both HC, DaveW, and myself have given Scripture... the only true sound advice,  that shows one cannot lose ones' Salvation.  Yet you keep promoting otherwise.

[HappyChristian]

FTR , GS, I don't think you are promoting ecumenicism. And you are welcome to ask questions and try to clarify.  That's what I thought all along that you are doing. 

 

Ecumenicism, though, teaches that we all ought to get along no matter what we believe; that we don't want to offend someone by taking too firm a stand.

 

SFIC - I don't think she's promoting anything - least of all losing one's salvation (she has been clear that she believes in eternal security), to be quite honest.  I think she's seeking to understand and dovetail scripture. Let's not accuse, ok.  She's actually bringing up some good points that can be thorny especially for new Christians.

[2bLikeJesus]

I will put in one last comment from the scriptures.  IF someone could indeed lose their salvation, he is absolutely doomed to hell, with no redemption possible.  He would have to crucify Christ afresh.

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
⁴  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
⁵  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
⁶  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

 

SFIC - I don't think she's promoting anything - least of all losing one's salvation (she has been clear that she believes in eternal security), to be quite honest.  I think she's seeking to understand and dovetail scripture. Let's not accuse, ok.  She's actually bringing up some good points that can be thorny especially for new Christians.

Perhaps you missed post #75, where GS said,

What about Col 2:1? "Beware" lest any man spoil you...

The letter is to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ not to unbelievers.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard...

Paul is talking to believers, telling them they are reconciled then says "if ye continue in the faith. You have to continue in the faith and not be moved away from the hope...then in Ch 2 tells them to beware because they could be spoiled.

If this can't happen, why the warnings? They're all over scripture.

Guys...or anyone reading. I am sincerely trying to understand.

[HappyChristian]

I didn't miss anything.  She isn't promoting, she's asking. Let's not be so quick to label motives. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I will put in one last comment from the scriptures.  IF someone could indeed lose their salvation, he is absolutely doomed to hell, with no redemption possible.  He would have to crucify Christ afresh.

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
⁴  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
⁵  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
⁶  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 

Right.  But notice in verse 6, the word "if".  It does not say "when," but "if"  That one little word makes a big difference in the doctrine.

[GraceSaved]

It is a serious thing to say if someone is or is not saved. If we are unsure, then we should be praying for that person, asking God to work in that person's life and ask God to give us wisdom.

God's relationship with every individual is absolutely unique to that individual. And since we can't see behind the scenes what the Holy Spirit is doing in a person's life, I will refrain from labeling other professing Christians saved or unsaved. It is not my jOB.

[GraceSaved]

SFIC: Did you notice at the end of Post #75 that you refer to where I said "I am sincerely trying to understand?"