False Teaching

[Ukulelemike]

Galatians 3 has the answer. Also, 1 Timothy.

The Law (this would include the Ten Commandments) was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

According to 1 Timothy 1, the law is not for the righteous, but for the ungodly. That said, once we come to Christ, do we need the Law? They that are His have crucified the flesh and the affections thereof. No, no need for the Ten Commandments or any other Mosaic Law if we have truly come to Christ. We have been brought into a new covenant, the old is passed away.

Our love for Him will cause us to want to avoid coveting, stealing, killing, idolatry, etc., etc..

Am I saying we are sinless? God forbid! We do still sin from time to time, but when we do we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous. As long as we have our mortal bodies, we will struggle with the flesh just as the Apostle Paul did.

If we place ourselves under any part of the Mosaic Law, we need to OBserve all 613 statutes and ordinances contained in the Law... or we are cursed according to Galatians 3:10.

I absolutely agree with you here-my question is, in certain areas, how do we find specifi direction in some areas, LIKE tattoos or cutting one's self or cross-dressing, or other such things? Don't murder, don't steal, don't covet, yes, those are good and are repeated in the NT-but how do we declare anything on, again, like tattooing-is it okay, a matter of freedom and grace, so long as they are clean tattoos? Such things aren't dealt with at all in the New testament.

 

The OT is given to us as an example, for our learning of hos God deals with His people, and the nations of the world, the lost. One of the biggest things He does therein is teaching the general practice of separation, through some very specific examples, as well as some more general. Some, clearly, He has lifted, like the dietary things, but others He didn't, specifically. Yes, the law is done away with, yet there, particularly in the tattoos and dress issues, we see basic principles that are lasting, and, in a general sense, are continues in the New: be separate, come out, what accord hath Christ with Belial, be transformed, not conformed.

 

Now see, you and I, I suspect, and many here, can look at the general admonition of being transformed, and not conformed to the world, and (rightly) apply it to smoking, drinking, drugs, tattoos, music, hair, dress, etc, things that are not specifically mentioned in scirpture, because certain things have very clear roots in the wickedness of the world. As such, we know, because of the historical associations of these things, (tattoos, cross-dressing, et al), we can apply them to our lives without having to see it spelled out.

  yet we all know that there are those who cannot, or will not, see them nor accept them, except they be spelled out in specifics. Thus, since the Bible doesn't say not to listen to rock and roll, then all music is just fine. Or, since the NT doesn't say not to tattoo, then it must be fine. YET, if the Lord disallowed it in the OT specifically because it was to live as the pagans do, how can we NOT apply it today, when the wicked and worst of human society are the ones who have continued it?

 

So again, no, we don't live under the law, yet some of the things in the law were given due to very concrete reasons which still exist today, and I believ we can look back on those to examine them, and thus apply it today for the same reasons.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Well, for one, we can see that God calls those things like cutting oneself for the dead "abomination"

In Revelation, we see that the abominable will have their part in the lake of fire.

That revealed to us should cause us to want to please Christ and not do those abominable acts.  Not because we are commanded not to do them (we are not) but simply because we want to please Him.

I don't cross-dress because I want to please Him.
I don't tattoo my skin because I want to please Him.

Not because of a command, but because I know they are abominable in His eyes.

[Ukulelemike]

Well, for one, we can see that God calls those things like cutting oneself for the dead "abomination"

In Revelation, we see that the abominable will have their part in the lake of fire.

That revealed to us should cause us to want to please Christ and not do those abominable acts.  Not because we are commanded not to do them (we are not) but simply because we want to please Him.

I don't cross-dress because I want to please Him.
I don't tattoo my skin because I want to please Him.

Not because of a command, but because I know they are abominable in His eyes.

Yes, exactly, but how do you KNOW they are abominable in His eye?   See where I'm going? Just because it was part of the law doesn't mean its not still abominable. So the law still has a purpose, just not in the same capacity it once did.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The Law was a set of commands; I.e., do's and don'ts.

God does not command us to keep the Law.

We would all do well to study the Law. Not so that we will know what God commands us, ( because He does not command us to keep the Law ) but so we know what God hates. That which is detestable to Him should be detestable to us.

[Gorship]

The Law was a set of commands; I.e., do's and don'ts.

God does not command us to keep the Law.

We would all do well to study the Law. Not so that we will know what God commands us, ( because He does not command us to keep the Law ) but so we know what God hates. That which is detestable to Him should be detestable to us.

surprises me how people miss the whole "fulfilling the law" thing. " Matt 5:17

[Ukulelemike]

surprises me how people miss the whole "fulfilling the law" thing. " Matt 5:1

Care to expand on that comment a bit, brother? Just, it could be taken a couple ways and I'm interested in seeing what you mean.  Thanks.

[Ukulelemike]

The Law was a set of commands; I.e., do's and don'ts.

God does not command us to keep the Law.

We would all do well to study the Law. Not so that we will know what God commands us, ( because He does not command us to keep the Law ) but so we know what God hates. That which is detestable to Him should be detestable to us.

That's precisely where I was going with it. Not laws for us to keep, but a good place to see what God hates. IE, He didn't just find certain things abominable under the law, then later they were alright. Once wicked, always wicked.

[Gorship]

Care to expand on that comment a bit, brother? Just, it could be taken a couple ways and I'm interested in seeing what you mean.  Thanks.

well.. as a (former?) pastor (if I remember your previous posts correctly) Christ fulfilling the law could fill pulpit time for quite a while. My point really was that many people (especially in some reformed circles I have found... more or less the "paul washers") will say we need to keep the law, which isn't false but isnt 100% true, the law in this dispensation gives us God's heart, and since our command is to Love God with all we have, this would mean to seek his heart, which would be to honor those commandments, however our fulfilling them is impossible without Christ Jesus, The One and Only one who fulfilled them. This is to say one does not OBey the law to be with Jesus, but one has Jesus, so they OBserve His law with love. Methods for which laws are NT/OT are not the point of this post, but rather we strive for Christ and not for lawfulness.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Yes, that which was abominable then is still abominable now. And it is not that we OBserve the Law, but that we have learned whta God hates and that which is born of God hates those things too.

[Dr James Ach]

In response to Salyan on another thread since the topics are similar: (>For context, see this comment)

 

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Really? If that were true why do you think so many people are complaining? Sure, someone who sees it will EVENTUALLY correct it, and then it will turn into a war because it is not simply and IFB teaching another IFB why a particular doctrine is wrong and unbiblical but a believer having to confront and debate a heretic that's been permitted to host his anti-IFB garbage. How many people here are now confused about what an IFB is because you all have allowed so many to come in here and rationalize the definition to reductio ad absurdem? And yet somehow you think the permitting of the false teachers is somehow LESS DESTRUCTIVE THAN ME COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR PRESENCE??

 

Paul and John didn't say tolerate them because being nice to them helps maintain our image of 'love' to the visitors: HE SAID GET RID OF THEM AND DON'T EVEN LET THEM IN YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE THEIR PRESENCE IS A THREAT. 1 Cor 5:9-13, 2 John 10, Titus 1:11, Romans 16:17.