Intoducing Me

[Ukulelemike]

Like 'Election'. Election in surely a biblical doctrine, but it must be understood correctly.

 

I liken it to an earthly election: A president is elected, but not against his will. An office is available, and he/she puts forth their desire to be elected to that office. Those with the authority choose then who will be elected.

 

Spiritually, we hear that a 'position' is available in the kingdom of God as on of His children, and desiring that, we put forth our desire, calling upon the Lord for salvation. The Lord elects who He will, which praise God is "Whosoever will". All who call are elected!

[prophet1]

Like 'Election'. Election in surely a biblical doctrine, but it must be understood correctly.

I liken it to an earthly election: A president is elected, but not against his will. An office is available, and he/she puts forth their desire to be elected to that office. Those with the authority choose then who will be elected.

Spiritually, we hear that a 'position' is available in the kingdom of God as on of His children, and desiring that, we put forth our desire, calling upon the Lord for salvation. The Lord elects who He will, which praise God is "Whosoever will". All who call are elected!

The traditional meaning of election would be that those under authority, elect the authority.

Anishinaabe

[Salyan]

Actually, according to Webster's 1828 dictionary (which is about as traditional as it gets), election is the act of choosing, esp. choosing one among others. The political sense we use it in nowadays is only one application among many, and shouldn't be used to define the term.

[Ukulelemike]

My point is that in pretty much all cases the one elected is not elected, save that he has sought that election, not had it forced upon him. except maybe in the military but thats a different animal.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Ah uh, but even the one elected into the.military could not have been elected had he never been born.

So it is with man. Man does not become elect until he is born from above.

[prophet1]

Ah uh, but even the one elected into the.military could not have been elected had he never been born.

So it is with man. Man does not become elect until he is born from above.

And the angels that chose to stay, rather than depart with Satan? Were they born again?
Or did they become the elect, when they made the choice?

1Ti 5:21
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.


Anishinaabe

[Ukulelemike]

And the angels that chose to stay, rather than depart with Satan? Were they born again?
Or did they become the elect, when they made the choice?

1Ti 5:21
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.


Anishinaabe

The elect angels may be speaking of specific angels placed into certain positions in working with Timothy or Paul, OR it may be speaking of angels as other preachers, as in the angels of the churches mentioned in Revelation 2&3, human leaders/messengers of the word of God.  It IS a bit OBscure who the 'elect angels' are Paul is referencing, something I have actually never thought about before.. Sorry, though I don't mean to change the subject here. 

[heartstrings]

Israel is "elect", we are "the elect". There are also "elect angels", "the elect lady" and an "elect sister" . Even the Lord Jesus is "elect".

OBviously Jesus could not have been "chosen for salvation" or even "chosen" at all being He has always been God, the creator, the "beginning and the end". The best I can ascertain, at present, is that they all have one thing in common; an individual or group which is "elect" is set apart for a certain service. Israel, believers, angels, and even the Lord Jesus have a special purpose, jOB, or function. Israel's function or purpose included being the avenue through which God brought us Christ, the law, the Word of God, and as a means to display God's grace and promises to the whole world. Our purpose and function includes being witnesses in letting our light shine in this dark world and in proclaiming the name of Jesus. Jesus' purpose was to bring God to man and man to God. His purpose in dying on Calvary and rising fromt he dead is all finished but he still has the purpose and function of being our intercessor now. He has more jOBs to do in the future as He will return to take us home, will return in the second coming, will rule in the millennial Kingdom etc. In short, Jesus took on the role of a servant. Even the president of the US is intended to be "set apart for service" so he ,also, has a special jOB to do; not just to sit in the Whitehouse.

 

Whereas "predestinated" refers to what we are promised to RECEIVE from God, "elect" seems to have to do with what we are to DO for God. Both are prescribed to work exactly the way God designed them from the beginning but neither have anything to do with salvation.

[prophet1]

The elect angels may be speaking of specific angels placed into certain positions in working with Timothy or Paul, OR it may be speaking of angels as other preachers, as in the angels of the churches mentioned in Revelation 2&3, human leaders/messengers of the word of God. It IS a bit OBscure who the 'elect angels' are Paul is referencing, something I have actually never thought about before.. Sorry, though I don't mean to change the subject here.

Rev. 2 isn't calling human leaders "angels".
I believe this to be easily understood , from Rev. 1.

Rev 1:1
Revelation
Chapter 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

An angel, a spirit being, a minister of God, a messenger, delivered to John, the human instrument, a message.

Rev 1:2
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

John bore record, or wrote the message down, and carried it, in material form, physically, so that humans could hear it. It then became part of our more sure word of prophecy

Anishinaabe

[prophet1]

Rev 1:4 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; John here is writing a message , delivered by 7 angels, Spirits before God's throne. Rev 1:10 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, John was made able to talk to the angels. .God showed him a mystery, which He revealed to him. Rev 1:20 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches:and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. The mystery, revealed, was that these stars represented angels, not humans. These angels took the message of God to the churches to which they were sent, just like the angel who was assigned to John ,gave him a message. The mystery was stars in the hand of a figure, "like unto the Son of man". Revealed, it was angels, sent with messages to churches. Had God meant to show elders, he would have revealed the mystery as elders, like every other time that elders are mentioned in Rev. He already revealed it, Bro. Mike, to John the Beloved...they are his heavenly, spirit-being, messenger angels. There is no other revelation of this mystery. There is none needed. Not once in Scripture did God ever refer to men as "angels". Anishinaabe

[prophet1]

Heb 1:7
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.


Heb 1:13-14
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

'Getting it right' on this subject, removes the foundation for much false doctrine that has entered in to our Baptist churches.

Anishinaabe

[Standing Firm In Christ]

What does Hebrews 7 or Hebrews 1 have to do with the OP?

[Ukulelemike]

What does Hebrews 7 or Hebrews 1 have to do with the OP?

We are just discussing angels. Got a bit off-topic.

 

 

Heb 1:7
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.


Heb 1:13-14
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

'Getting it right' on this subject, removes the foundation for much false doctrine that has entered in to our Baptist churches.

Anishinaabe

The prOBlem is, the word angel CAN be applied to a human, just as the word 'god' can be applied to a human, depending on the context. An angel, strictly-speaking, in a messenger. It could be a human, though more often than not, it is a heavenly messenger.  And 'god' can be applied to a mighty one who is human, or God, THE mighty One.

 

IN Rev 2&3, why were the letters, sent from God, written at the hand of John, addressed to the angels of the churches, rather than to the churches, themselves? And why would the Lord need to send them through the hands of John to His heaven;ly messengers, rather than directly from Himself? And why would it aply to angels, rather than the men of the churches?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

god can also be applied to magistrates, such as judges. "ye are gods".

[heartstrings]

little 'g' gods